Is the head a bit U? Or am I?

[EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog]

DD (7, y3) is bright but can be a very difficult child at times. However, her school are really not helping matters - I think they have lost all sense of proportion with disciplining her.

Last week DD bought a Practical Joke book from the school book fair. The following day she smuggled the rude-noise-making putty into school (against my express instruction) and played a prank on one of the break supervisors (who happens to be her close friend's mum): "Oooh, is that you farting, Mrs X?"

DD was promptly hauled into the head master's office for a chat about 'inappropriate' behaviour It was described as a 'serious event' to us parents. We obviously backed to school up 100% to DD's face, but privately I'm wondering if that wasn't a SLIGHT overreaction from school. She's 7 and bought the offending item at school FFS!

and the argument that she "bought the item at school," is irrelevant. I can buy condoms in boots, ...

We are very close friends with the DCs art/ICT teacher. Would that make it acceptable for them to behave differently with her in the school environment? Of course not.

Still can't see where the OP applied any punishment or took DD to task in any way for either the disobedience or behaviour itself....

@ Wannabe

My DD's school has a long and proud tradition of over-reacting to japes whilst being able to overlook underperforming teachers.

but the member of staff was someone she knew personally - out of school

So do you think she should have preferential treatment for breaking the school rules because she 'knows the member of staff personally'?

Because I certainly don't...that'd be a recipe for disaster in a school where often the dinner ladies and TA's know kids out of school.

Yes - as valium says, the 'at home' part of the punishment could have been greater - but perhaps the confiscation is enough to bring the seriousness of the issue home to the OP's dd. I think for me it would depend on whether she played the practical joke once or twice, or whether she carried on doing it over and again after having been told to stop. The former is a joke (albeit maybe a bit disrespectful when played on a member of staff), the latter is rudeness and disrespect for authority, and I would crack down much harder on that.

Just because she knows her out of school doesn´t mean that she can be so disrespectful in a school situation, does it?

Wonder why she chose her & not a teacher

I don´t think that the school overreacted at all.

Japery!

I know some of the children at the school I work at personally. They know that school is different to out of school, even the reception children. It has not been hard for any of them to know that they can address me as my first name sometimes and as Mrs Surname at school. I don't think the fact that your dd knows the teacher out f school makes any difference at all, except she hoped she had more chance of getting away with it than she would with someone else, which actually makes it worse.

I would be just as upset with my child being rude and disrespectful to one of my friends as I would be with him doing it to a teacher.

Fillybuster - MadameChinLegs said she would have confiscated the fart putty, as a punishment for the girl taking it into school against her mum's direct prohibition, and the OP said, "Madame - that's exactly what I did" - at 11:40:26.

@ Linerunner

YANBU the school overreacted hugely. Yes it was naughty and yes she deserved a telling off. No it is not 'serious' (and I'm quite Victorian in my attitudes too!).

worra I agree. And tbh I have known many parents who seem to take the view that because the child knows the member of staff outside the school environment that somehow means they have a relationship with them above and beyond what other children should be afforded. They do not.

Someone working within the school is a professional there, regardless of whether they're a teacher or lunchtime superviser, and all children should be treated the same and should give the same level of respect regardless. I imagine she wouldn't have played the trick had it been a lesser known member of staff, which speaks volumes, IMO.

Sounds incredibly ott to me. Surely all they had to do was confiscate the putty and make her apologise. Have they no sense of humour?!

DS's Yr3 class made farting type things in class as part of their science topic not long ago.

It is inappropriate behaviour although I wouldn't call it "a serious event". I'd have backed the school up because I agree with them on their decision to pull her on it and for that reason alone. You say you "obviously" backed the school 100% to your DD's face although you don't agree with them. AFAIAC there's nothing "obvious" about it. I back the person who's in the right not the person who's in authority.

To all those saying it sounds 'OTT'

What actual part are you talking about?

The Head simply having a chat with the child about he behaviour?

Or is it the bit where it was described as a 'serious event'?

If it was the latter, I'd say it wasn't described to the parents as that but to the kids...you know to stop them bringing in stuff they've been told not to bring.

Still not a big deal.

Well, as always, there is quite a bit of back story to my question, so... since you ask, I will fill you in on some of it. :)

We DO take discipline very seriously in our household - I learnt a long time ago that DD needs cast iron boundaries from all grown ups around her. She's the very definition of a child who is 'too smart for her own good'. Just beacuse I use a flippant turn of phrase on MN doesn't mean I have a flippant attitude to serious issues like discipline. In this instance we 1) backed the school up in front of the teacher to DD 2) confiscated the putty for a week (which school had failed to do!) 3) followed up with a loss of privileges.

DD has some issues with behaviour at school. She struggles to conform, she struggles to behave well. Both school and us parents are all in agreement that she needs extra help and support with aspects of behaviour. However, when it comes to HOW best to help her, school and home part company. The school are increasingly heavy-handed with her and there is a general atmosphere of "DD just is a VERY naughty child" from the other teachers, pupils and staff. She never earns all of her Golden Time. Not ever.

I feel that this is not pure naughtiness - there is something she is not 'getting' about the subtleties of social conduct. In the extensive assessments we had last year they found a host of mild issues that altogether do not add up to anything diagnosable, but identified many different areas that need support. (One of them is that DD is indeed very bright.) But because of the lack of a clear DX, the school are not doing very much with the results. They are rubbish at communicating with home. I would like them to get help to look at the subtle issues DD is having, and work with us to address those. But they're citing lack of resources, doubting the need for some of the recommendations, ignoring their own ED Psych's advice, etc. - and continue to just punish DD for every little offence.

This thread has been hugely helpful so thank you for everyone who answered. It seems that most children could be expected not to play a prank on a grown up at the age of 7 - and that a well-behaved child would probably not get into trouble for the same offence. (I mislaid my sense of what is normal for a 7-year-old a long time ago!)

I also find it heartening that so many of you think sending the child to a head master for this was disproportionate. Because it was, really

Thanks everyone!

The school are NBU to react as they did and you were right to back them up as you told her not to take the stuff back to school and she ignored you.

If all she got for punishment was a stern telling off then I think she came out of it okay, although perhaps an apology to the break supervisor might be in order as well. Any more extreme punishment would be unfair in this instance.

But you would NBU to point out to them that they sold her the joke set in the first place at their book fair and suggest that they might want to reconsider the items they sell to the children if they then object to them being used at school.

I'm sorry; I am not very grown up. Had that been my DD I probably would have gotten uncontrollable giggles at the silliness of it all and then said something along the lines of "I'm sorry, this is a serious issue. At what point did she pull out the shiv?"

OMG well it was inappropriate wasn't it but but not a serious event really huh.

Blimey, sooo many hard liners and schools taking on ridiculous draconian terminology. I totally agree with the poster. The girl will go far

Ahh so she was 'sent' now and not 'hauled'?

How you can say being sent for a chat with the Head is disproportionate is beyond me, especially when they didn't even confiscate the putty.

If anything, they should have at least done that much.

And you say you feel it's not 'pure naughtiness'...yet you expressly told her not to bring it into school and she disobeyed you.

What is pure naughtiness in your eyes then?

As you weren't there you don't know how the incident happened. If she had pressed it once and said 'have you farted?' then giggled and showed the putty, then perhaps it was an innocent joke.

But perhaps she did it in front of lots of other children, on purpose to embarrass the woman. I have taught a number of disrespectful children who can say things in certain 'tones' to be as nasty as possible. She probably enjoyed the other children laughing at the woman and enjoyed seeing her humiliated.

I would be furious if my child ever tried to embarrass and humiliate anyone, let alone an adult at school.

And it's not different that she knows the woman. My mum taught me but I still had to call her 'Mrs Surname', put my hand up to speak etc. I knew allowances couldn't be made just because I was her daughter - and I was in Year 3 at the time.

i think now that we know she's perceived as a very naughty child, it's worse!

basically, she could do something that another child just got a "don't do that!" for andshe'd be hauled over the coals.

what a way to treat a 7year-old. "you're naughty so we'll always treat you like a naughty child"

Blimey Mary that's a horrid thing to say about any 7 year old. If that's the way you view such small children, I'd hate you to teach mine.

It was a fart joke - they're 7 - it's funny to them, not malicious surely.

basically, she could do something that another child just got a "don't do that!" for andshe'd be hauled over the coals

How do you know that?

If the kids aren't allowed to take things like that to school...they're not allowed to take it to school so you don't know that others wouldn't be hauled over the coals.

Not that this child was hauled over the coals....