To increase days at work to get away from grumpy toddler

[auburnlizzy78]

I feel AWFUL about this, first off.

Situation - I went back to work three days a week in Sept 2011 after a year mat leave. Mine is a high profile, important job which I love and need for my self esteem more than I realised . I had PTSD and PND for much of DS's first year. DH gave up work in the summer to help me. DS has been grumbly and miserable (up to six hours crying per day for example) and a poor sleeper since he was born. DH earned about a third of my wage, and we didn't need his income really. We then decided he would do a masters degree part time with a view to getting a better job at the end of it (August 2013). The rest of the time he would be a SAHD. The two days he has lectures are my non working days. So DS has a parent at home all the time and we are fortunate enough for that to be the case until he's almost three. Many people would LOVE to be in our situation - I realise this.

We sent DS off to a wonderful local nursery for two half days when he was eight months old before DH gave up work and I was very ill and needed respite. He LOVES it. Never cries, eats well, very very happy. Two months ago, because of how awful my DS continues to be when at home, we upped it to a third half day because DH was having trouble coping with him for four days straight (Friday to Monday). My big strong tough DH actually broke down in tears one night - we do so much for our DS, fun, stimulation, interaction, cuddles, good food, nice home and all he does is cry and have terrible terrible tantrums ALL DAY unless we are with other people and not at home - and you can't be out for twelve hours a day every day. He has very disturbed sleep for no obvious reason. It is breaking us. Maybe one good day out of seven. Weekends are generally miserable although we do go out and do stuff and try to have fun with him.

DH put the idea to me today to do a fourth day at work each week, and put DS in nursery for three full days. Work would bite my arm off to accept. We don't really need the extra money though. DH would spend the time studying or working ad hoc for his friend's company at a not-to-be-sneezed-at day rate. So he would have a full day on his own with DS. I would have a full day on my own, and weekends would be family time.

Sorry if this has been complicated. I just feel so bad that there are all these people out there working more than they want to, and WOHPs and SAHPs cherishing their days spent with their kids and here we are looking for ways out of it. What am I looking for here? Permission I guess, or a stern talking to. Please be gentle. Again I have had 3.5 hours sleep because of my DS - from 3-6.30am.

If your DS is happy at nursery I see nothing wrong with it. It's not necessary to be racked with guilt and to hate your job. But I do think you need to get to the bottom of why your DS is so unsettled. Is he better on family holidays when you're both there? Worse? Can you see any patterns at all?

On another subject - are you sure you can deal with the third day if you're getting so little sleep?

Sorry - fourth day I mean

Longtall - thanks. No patterns that we can see. We have racked our brains.

The only way to deal with the lack of sleep is for DH and I to do one night on, one night off "shift". DH will increase his nights "on" so that I can be rested for work as much as possible. Thankfully it is an office job and there is a good coffee machine.....

You have to do what suits you all best.

I have to say though that you do seem to focus on the material things rather than working out why your son is so upset and has so many tantrums. You have mentioned good food and a nice home, neither of which a toddler would be interested in, you have mentioned 'not needing the money' if you work an extra day and your DH getting a daily rate 'not to be sneezed at'

Just a thought but do you think your son is picking up on your concentration on material things and money rather than him?

How old is your ds now? About 18 months?

I agree the extra nursery sound fine but you need to try and look at what's going on at home, it's not fair on you or your dh to be so stressed.

Has your ds reached all his milestones, dies your HV have any concerns about his behaviour?

Dies he react better to a more structured environment at nursery?

I wonder if the disturbed sleep is the key. What sort of sleepers are you and DH? What's your DS's bedtime routine like? What's a typical night like?

YABU.I actually think that increasing hours etc is the worst thing you could do. Theres nothing wrong with the nursery itself but it really is bypassing the problem and possibly that could make it worse in the future. There MUST be a reason for his change in behaviour at home, if he is capable of behaving at nursery or with others then is is capable at home. At the moment you sound almost scared of taking charge of him I would look into the reasons for his behaviour and ways to manage it before going the route your planning now.
perhaps posting some more specific examples of how his behaviour either here or on the behaviour board would help?

I don't think that's quite fair Hexagonal. I was just trying to set out the family situation because for many, money would be the deciding factor in what to do. I was also trying to point out that it's not because he eats a crap diet or is hungry that he's so difficult. I should also have said perhaps that we spend HOURS playing with him, singing, cuddling (or trying to), reading to him etc etc. Literally hours a day - on his terms though so we are not "in his face" more than he wants us to be. It makes NO difference.

OP, you have my sympathies. Some small children are very hard work; my oldest DD was a complete nightmare and I used to long for a job to go to... nothing either of us did made her 'happier', there were no physical or developmental problems, she was just born stroppy and it very nearly broke us. (DD2 on the other hand was the child like the one you dream of, easy, sunny-natured, always smiling etc etc)

Then DD1 got older and as she aged she improved. She just didnt like being a child!! She's 15 now and an absolute delight.

So I would say that there is absolutely no harm in taking on your extra day and your DH having his day away - you may well find that it does you all good to have that bit of space and that it means you face weekends more refreshed and more able to deal with your DS.

Definitely do what is right for you in terms of work and his time at nursey. But make sure that this is not leading you to avoid the problem.

You have to keep trying to resolve the pattern of behaviour with your DC. I have a friend who has a difficult time with her DS and I am really trying to make her see that it's not normal. Sometimes when you're stuck in the situation of trying to cope with your reality, you can't see that.

Talk to your HV and nursery, then maybe GP. Because what you describe can't be sustained on a long-term basis - not by you, your DP and certainly not by your DS.

Have you tried cranial osteopathy?

Have you spoken to a doctor about his behaviour?

I think all toddlers tend towards grumpiness at home - mine certainly does, so I go out every day. But it does sounds quite extreme so was wondering if you had ruled out any underlying health problem.

I would agree too that perhaps more hours at work wouldn't solve the problem, and that you need to try and address the behaviour issues.

If you are always out and about, is he perhaps over stimulated and not able to relax at home?

I would certainly speak to your HV about help that is available and use the Mumsnet boards.

How old is he at the moment?

5dcs. I know - that is what I am worried about and yes, I will admit that I am scared of taking charge of him sometimes when I know what is in store for me all day - although I am a great actress so he doesn't pick up on it. It takes me back to a very dark place that I was in last year. When he is good though, he is amazing, the most wonderful child.

My parents, inlaws etc don't know what is going on either. Health visitors haven't helped. Am taking him to the doctor tomorrow in case there is a physical cause that we are missing. No special needs, nothing that would indicate autism (although of course he is very young).

Littleducks he is 17m old. Not quite walking - he can do it but won't. He says a few words. No issues that I can see.

Longtalljosie Bedtime routine - 7pm goes down great with 8oz bottle after CBeebies bedtime hour. Room quiet and dark with a nightlight. Same as it has always been. I expect to get up to feed him once. He is a big hungry lad. takes his milk and goes back to sleep straight away. But keeps waking - night terrors, furious tantrums because he can't resettle, kicks me in the stomach to get back in his cot if I try and cuddle him and soothe him that way. DH has same experience. We are both good sleepers and always have been.

OP what happens if you just ignore him for a while. For example I am a sahm with 5dcs and I never spend hours a day doing things with my children If I did (especially at 18 months) I am sure they would soon start to grate on me as well! I spend time with them but I also leave them to entertain themselves as well. At night as well what does he do that keeps you awake? My son used to be an awful sleeper and in the end we put a gate on his room and left him to it until he went to sleep, but after a while he just seemed to get board of making a fuss.

OP just re-read my post and realised it may have sounded like I was saying you weren't trying to help your DS, which is not what I meant at all. I was trying to encourage you and your DH to ask for support so that all of your lives could be improved. Also did not mean to infer that your DS is not normal.

Gosh, really should re-read before posting

I imagine he is grumpy because he is not getting enough sleep! The answer is right under your nose. I am sure you would all benefit enormously from sorting that out. And, ime, you must take all under 5s out every single day, whatever the weather, unless they are ill.

I am sorry but I can just picture you and your dh being too intense with him - you say you give him "fun, stimulation, interaction" - he doesn't need all this, the whole world is new and exciting to him, he just needs to be.

I agree that you should do what's best for all of you, and this idea sounds like a good one.

But I also agree that you should do a bit more to try to find out what could be bothering him so much.

Yes, some babies are stroppier than others. I know a little girl who was absolutely miserable her first year, until she could start walking and talking. But if your DS has always been like this and developmental changes aren't helping and he's fine at nursery it does sound like something is really bothering him.

It sounds like you are not too pressed for money (if you 'don't need' your DH's salary). I would try bringing in a sleep counselor -- it's possible that if you can get him to sleep properly, that will solve all his problems, or perhaps the things that are keeping him from sleeping are also the things that are bothering him during the day.

Would that be an option?

Cross posts with a few of you! Thank you for all your posts so far.

Raspberry - I make sure we are home by 4.30 and have a nice gentle wind-down to the end of the day. No toys with lights or noises after 6pm. Playroom shut off and he sits in the living room to watch CBeebies. That was a contributory factor to the problem initially I think but not any more. Also, his day time naps are fine - 1-1.5 hours, in the same place he sleeps at night. I make sure that he is getting a quality midday sleep, as do nursery.

Have you spend a session at nursery with him to see what the routine is like?

Maybe you could adopt the same routine for the days at home to see if that helps.

YANBremotelyU.

The guilt you feel is 90 per cent hormones/PND remnants. Ignore it and do what's best for all of you - nursery. Very tricky children a) do exist b) grow out of it. Half-killing both parents with relentless strain does not change this.

You've been seriously ill - your needs are at least equal to that of a healthy toddler.

While society shrieks at us to put children's needs first, what that means is to keep children clean, fed,educated and loved - it doesn't mean sacrificing the parents' health and happiness. It really doesn't. And even if it did, that wouldn't help.

Some (a lot of) perfectly normal parents don't enjoy time with small children, no matter how many they have of different temperaments. That's not a problem - don't make it one.

I honestly think it would be the best for all of you. My dd2 is a nightmare child at home. She whines and clings and drives me to despair. However my 3 older children are not like this, she is lovely when we are out and actually thrives now she is at pre school. I only put her in for 2 mornings as i didnt think they/ she would cope with more. But we are now increasing those hours as she loves it so much. Pre school say she is fine there and is one of their most helpful happy children. I think (money aside ) each family has to do what is best for them, i think if he is happy there, and you are happy at work then why not. You can make the best of the family time you have togther, structure in nice day trips and enjoy it as much as possible. Less stressed parents i think make happier families. So i think aslong as he truely loves it at nursary then why the hell not! Good luck.

I'd be kicking the nursery door down tbh.
My DS is similar age to yours, awesome, happy wee boy, and has done 3 full days at nursery since he was 6m old.

We need the money, but my sanity and family harmony are also equally part of it. I had pnd too.

We love our lifestyle now, and DS is on top form.

Good luck op.

Dreaming - yes, that is an option. My mum reckons he is highly intelligent and just desperately frustrated that he can't do more - but what can I do about that?

Bibbity - yes, agree! We do go out EVERY day.

My mum did say - just let him get on with it, don't always be in his face. So we tried. It works for about ten minutes. We leave him alone during bedtime hour when he is engrossed in the TV. But he wants to interact with us and so we follow what he wants. E.g. he comes over with a book and if I don't read it to him he throws it at me, flings himself on the floor and has been known to bang his head, which of course makes him cry harder. I have to read it multiple times until he gets bored and wanders off. My DH has stopped carrying him so much because DS is 30lb and he is crippling his back. But if he is put down DS totally loses it. We are trying to strike a balance between keeping him happy and being "in charge" and not doing everything he wants/