To increase days at work to get away from grumpy toddler

[auburnlizzy78]

I feel AWFUL about this, first off.

Situation - I went back to work three days a week in Sept 2011 after a year mat leave. Mine is a high profile, important job which I love and need for my self esteem more than I realised . I had PTSD and PND for much of DS's first year. DH gave up work in the summer to help me. DS has been grumbly and miserable (up to six hours crying per day for example) and a poor sleeper since he was born. DH earned about a third of my wage, and we didn't need his income really. We then decided he would do a masters degree part time with a view to getting a better job at the end of it (August 2013). The rest of the time he would be a SAHD. The two days he has lectures are my non working days. So DS has a parent at home all the time and we are fortunate enough for that to be the case until he's almost three. Many people would LOVE to be in our situation - I realise this.

We sent DS off to a wonderful local nursery for two half days when he was eight months old before DH gave up work and I was very ill and needed respite. He LOVES it. Never cries, eats well, very very happy. Two months ago, because of how awful my DS continues to be when at home, we upped it to a third half day because DH was having trouble coping with him for four days straight (Friday to Monday). My big strong tough DH actually broke down in tears one night - we do so much for our DS, fun, stimulation, interaction, cuddles, good food, nice home and all he does is cry and have terrible terrible tantrums ALL DAY unless we are with other people and not at home - and you can't be out for twelve hours a day every day. He has very disturbed sleep for no obvious reason. It is breaking us. Maybe one good day out of seven. Weekends are generally miserable although we do go out and do stuff and try to have fun with him.

DH put the idea to me today to do a fourth day at work each week, and put DS in nursery for three full days. Work would bite my arm off to accept. We don't really need the extra money though. DH would spend the time studying or working ad hoc for his friend's company at a not-to-be-sneezed-at day rate. So he would have a full day on his own with DS. I would have a full day on my own, and weekends would be family time.

Sorry if this has been complicated. I just feel so bad that there are all these people out there working more than they want to, and WOHPs and SAHPs cherishing their days spent with their kids and here we are looking for ways out of it. What am I looking for here? Permission I guess, or a stern talking to. Please be gentle. Again I have had 3.5 hours sleep because of my DS - from 3-6.30am.

Sorry for the different posts! But, I tend to agree with the posters saying he will grow out of it, rather than there being a specific problem - sadly some little ones are just like that whilst they are little!

Have you thought about dropping the day nap?

Mumsy -- that's really good advice I think.

I read some of the Harvey Karp book on toddlers (name escapes me) which was quite good on this 'power struggle' aspect. At this age they are basically little raging ids. Often they don't actually want things, they want attention or control or 'to win' as he puts it.

I think your routine sounds fine. Two dinners sounds a bit odd, you could try just giving a snack mid-afternoon and a proper dinner later. He might sleep better on a full stomach and it would also be better for dropping the night feed.

It sounds like he is frustrated at being a child !

Some children like this turn out to be very intelligent. (My SIL was like this apparently neither a happy baby nor a happy toddler but a changed child once she could walk/talk/be more independant and improved still with learning to read and write then starting school). She is now a very clever but chilled adult.

If I were you I'd take up extra nursery session(s) but use that extra time to spend at home with your dh chilling/sleeping/whatever. It may well refresh you both giving you the energy reserves to see through the coming months until your ds's verbal and physical abilities catch up with his brain capacity.

I don't necessarily agree about dropping cBeebies. The bedtime hour is meant to be relaxing and in any case the bedtime routine is about sleep cues, which seem to be working perfectly. Getting him to sleep isn't the problem...

But you say you're not able to wind him after his feed, and he's aggressive at the end of it - that speaks of over tiredness to me. If I were you I'd decrease the feed gradually, and never wake him for it - and eventually go in and stroke his head when he wakes and say, sleepy time now. If he insists / gets upset give him the reduced feed, but once you've dropped the quantity right down, aim not to feed him.

I had a nightmare toddler

No real advice just oodles of sympathy

Our DS was just like this grumpy baby, a toddler who'd somehow pick a fight out of anything. He has got nicer and nicer with age was delightful by the age of 4. He's picking fights with you because you are his parents and the nursery staff are not. Don't take it personally -- he just isn't good at being a toddler.

And, you might do better on the sleep front by putting him to bed later our little chap would wake up after a couple of hours if he fell asleep at 7 or 8, and then be awake for another four hours. He may not need the amount of sleep you're trying to get him to do (though I am not suggesting you ditch the nap that's important).

It does pass. For your own sanity you may need him at nursery a bit more now, and then maybe a bit less later on when he has grown into himself.

My best friends son is like this, very full on at home but as soon as he's in the company of other kids he becomes this gorgeous delightful 3 year old. He's the same at nursery. I used to (secretly) blame her parenting, but since becoming a mum I've realised that some kids are just more full on. No advice I'm afraid as my best friend just battles through like you seem to be doing. If I was in this situation I would definitely try more nursery especially as he seems to be thriving there.

I don't think you are unreasonable to increase his nursery hours- DS is in nursery for two days when DP is at home as DP finds it hard work and so for us DS being with DP for 3 days is a good option (i work FT) - and I am thinking of incraeseing it to 3 days at nursery as DP still struggles.

But i think you are solving the wrong problem. Have you thought about getting a specialist nanny in to help with the sleeping and to try and get him in a routine that works for all of you or even just to give you a break.(also would second gnushoes- DS goes to bed at 9 and wakes up at 5- can't imagine what he'd be like if we got him down at 7)

Out of interest does he sleep better on the days hes been to nursery? My best friends son slept so much better on his nursery days.

My 10 mo DD is very similar and I have just put her in nursery 2 mornings a week mainly because she loves the stimulation. Her sleep for the first 8 months of her life was awful - I survived on 5 hours sleep a night. However it was a combination of reflux initially caused by allergies and then teething. We had a couple of months teething respite and she was a different child during this time - very strong willed still but no tantrums.

Now she is teething again and not sleeping again and we have spectacular tantrums and she becomes a lot more physical. She also gets hyperactive with over tiredness.

I did quite a lot of research into sleep training etc and liked babywhisperr quite a lot however there is a consultancy called Millbank which comes highly recommended by many. I can't believe that you've gone so long without calling in some help.

I agree that you should use the nursery extra days to get some time for yourself for a little while - you could always continue it and up your hours later.

Tackle the sleep first, get some time for yourself and see how things are. If you are still struggling with him, get an expert like a nanny in on a consultancy basis to help you identify what is going on and how to deal with it.

I also have a successful career etc and have never had any problems sorting things out in my life but just remember you can't be an expert in everything. No one is the perfect parent and there is nothing wrong in asking for help.

The thing that really sticks out for me is you say you read 30 stories a day initiated by him sorry but I'm
I have 3 dc the youngest just a few months older than your ds and there is no way I'd have time to read 30 stories a day. And yes he has tantrums sometimes but he also has to understand no sometimes too.
I have a nephew that mil and sil will do anything to appease and keep quiet. He has learnt that the louder he shouts the quicker he gets it. He doesn't behave like that with me and he doesn't do it at nursery.
You seem to be packing in a heap of activities to appease your ds and stop the tantrums but you will make yourselves ill doing that. He is still very little really but he does have to learn other things have to come first sometimes too and that sometimes there aren't enough hours in the day for other stuff and 30 stories a day.

YANBU. I know how you feel. I couldn't wait to go back to work and I went back FT when my DS was 3.5 months old. He has always been a very active child and now at 16 mths old he is still always always on the go. I have the option to do one day a week from home yet I still go into the office for some respite. I must admit now he is older I actually find being at home with him less stressful than being at work, but still.

I wouldn't feel guilty at all. Some people just find being at home with children very difficult, particularly if they are quite career focused or goal orientated. I didn't suffer from PND but I think it was work that saved me, because I sure as shit felt like I came close...

"But he wants to interact with us and so we follow what he wants. E.g. he comes over with a book and if I don't read it to him he throws it at me, flings himself on the floor and has been known to bang his head, which of course makes him cry harder. I have to read it multiple times until he gets bored and wanders off. My DH has stopped carrying him so much because DS is 30lb and he is crippling his back. But if he is put down DS totally loses it. We are trying to strike a balance between keeping him happy and being "in charge" and not doing everything he wants"

This really rang bells with me. DS (now 2.5) was exactly like this at that age. His older sister was very different and self-sufficient and I found myself enjoying the fact he bought me things to do and wanted to be physically close. But it ended up driving me crazy.

Instead of going along with what he wanted I started to be firmer. If he bought me a book I would say 'Ok DS, I'll read this once' and at the end I would say 'Finished! That was good wasn't it...I liked the X...Go and choose a different one then'. If he tantrummed I would pick up my own book/get up off the sofa and say 'oh dear, never mind...Mummy's going to do this now'. Essentially I would get on with my day with breaks with him, reading books, setting up new toys etc. If I was in the kitchen and washing up and he clung to my leg I would either lift him up onto the worksurface to talk to me whilst I did it, set him a little job (like putting clothes from a bag into the washing machine) or got down a small basket of toys I kept on the worksurface that were only used while I was busy, then put away again.

He was a reluctant walker too and we got him a little trike which he used indoors for a while which strengthened his legs and made him realise what he was missing. We also played racing games and used incentives like grapes to get him to practice his walking.

He was a rubbish sleeper too, in retrospect he was too cold in the winter and socks + a blanket improved the situation. He also got a banana about an hour before bed and we gave him a much bigger breakfast and lunch- he was hugely hungry in the morning and we just weren't giving him enough.

It took a while to sort this out, in retrospect I didn't want to be 'mean' and felt guilty that he got less time with me than his older sister. It took a few months to get it right, but at 2.5 he is lovely. Now he can speak properly and make his wishes known he will play by himself for up to an hour at a time, is still a little clingy but much more independent.

I should also add I have increased activities for my son and that seems to have helped. He has playgroup on a Monday, my Mum takes him to this massive kids playground on a Tuesday for him to run around for an hour or so, library rhyme time on a Wed and then gymbaroo Thursday and Friday. On the weekends my DH take him swimming at least one afternoon and he comes out for a bike ride with us. This has made him much less whingey. He loves being around lots of people and in big groups, with lots of kids rather than trapped inside. So now the way I cope with him if I am home with him is simply to take him out the minute he is awake (after his meals of course).

However, he is now waking between 4am and 5.30am a lot of mornings for a bottle of milk....so not sure what is happening there.

You have my sympathy. It is bloody hard work.

Lizzy- I wasn't insinuating something was wrong with him, sorry if it came across like that, just trying to get a clearer picture.

It sounds like you know what you have to do, cut out night feeds, put your foot down about his behaviour when it is unacceptable not tiptoe around trying not to upset him etc. but are sometimes too knackered to do it, which is fair enough.

If extra nursery helps you to be less tired then I would go for it. I would work on the issues at home too

Have you looked into sensory processing disorders? Checklist is here, if anything rings bells.

Can I throw in some psycho babble here?

Do you feel guilty about your PND and try to do whatever he wants because you feel bad for how you were when he was small? I think you need to forgive yourself and let all of that go. Reading 30 stories a day would drive me up the wall!

I would definitely start with getting rid of the night feed, gradually reduce it each night until it is gone. It will be hard work - but then it is anyway - and he should eat more in the day to compensate.

FWIW I think if nursery is working for him then go for it - he won't always be like this and if it makes you all happier it's a good thing. I'm a SAHM but my dd goes to a childminder too (how crap am I!) but it really helps me.

Good luck.

I don't think there is anything wrong with reading 30 books in a day , I do this with my DC1 (3.4yrs) quite easily. It's not hard work, or overstimulating him. He was like this since he was 10 months old, always wanted to be read to.

Does he not eat anything between 8am breakfast and 1pm lunch?

My 19 month old DD is about 20lbs, so your DS is quite a lot heavier (prob cos he doesn't walk yet), infact he is about my 3.4yr old DS's weight. Does he get enough exercise? Maybe if he started walking it would really help - maybe he is frustrated that he can't walk yet? I've heard of a lot of toddlers become better in their temperament when they start walking.

My sympathies though, it does sound like hard work.

i never heard of anyone wnding a toddler.... dont think you need to try really!
does he burp/fart a lot?

it is good you writing down the behaviours here can help to think of specific ones and how you and h could alter your responses - the A antecedent
b behaviour
c response -

look at the book thing - he tantrums and gets the response he wants doesnt he? if he banging head on floor and you said no - then put a cushion under him but ignore.

think more about how to change your response to hie behaviours so you encourage good reward good but ignore the bad.

if he doesnt want cuddles at night that is fine

oh and go for xtra days at nursery if he thriving there why not?

talk to nursery they may have someone who could do home visit with you watch and observe and give some advice supernanny style

Thanks for all the replies - will go through and post later when bedtime's all over with.....

Right, he's been down for ten minutes. Easiest bit of the day. The bedtime is really not the problem! However I will keep at the back of my mind whether CBeebies is becoming too much as he gets older and will react accordingly.

I have a DH to feed now, will show him this thread and then answer your questions. I apologise if I miss individual posters - that's not to say I haven't read what you've been kind enough to post. I have read every word - and not been offended by anything anyone's said, considering this is AIBU I think I've got off scot free actually!

Have only skimmed the thread so apologies if someone has already suggested this but have you tried keeping a food diary? My cousin was like this when he was little and it was exhausting for my poor aunt and uncle! When he got a little older someone suggested it could be his diet, after keeping a food diary they identified certain foods that would trigger his tantrum-like behaviour (I am talking about tantrums that were going on well past the age you would expect them to have stopped). He's all grown up now and everyone says what a gentle young man he is!

Only read the first few posts but wanted to let you know know that although our ds is generally a happy toddler (20 months), he is much better behaved at nursery than at home. They haven't seen him raise an eyebrow let alone show displeasure at their inability to understand what he wants.

Same with my dd before him.