To increase days at work to get away from grumpy toddler

[auburnlizzy78]

I feel AWFUL about this, first off.

Situation - I went back to work three days a week in Sept 2011 after a year mat leave. Mine is a high profile, important job which I love and need for my self esteem more than I realised . I had PTSD and PND for much of DS's first year. DH gave up work in the summer to help me. DS has been grumbly and miserable (up to six hours crying per day for example) and a poor sleeper since he was born. DH earned about a third of my wage, and we didn't need his income really. We then decided he would do a masters degree part time with a view to getting a better job at the end of it (August 2013). The rest of the time he would be a SAHD. The two days he has lectures are my non working days. So DS has a parent at home all the time and we are fortunate enough for that to be the case until he's almost three. Many people would LOVE to be in our situation - I realise this.

We sent DS off to a wonderful local nursery for two half days when he was eight months old before DH gave up work and I was very ill and needed respite. He LOVES it. Never cries, eats well, very very happy. Two months ago, because of how awful my DS continues to be when at home, we upped it to a third half day because DH was having trouble coping with him for four days straight (Friday to Monday). My big strong tough DH actually broke down in tears one night - we do so much for our DS, fun, stimulation, interaction, cuddles, good food, nice home and all he does is cry and have terrible terrible tantrums ALL DAY unless we are with other people and not at home - and you can't be out for twelve hours a day every day. He has very disturbed sleep for no obvious reason. It is breaking us. Maybe one good day out of seven. Weekends are generally miserable although we do go out and do stuff and try to have fun with him.

DH put the idea to me today to do a fourth day at work each week, and put DS in nursery for three full days. Work would bite my arm off to accept. We don't really need the extra money though. DH would spend the time studying or working ad hoc for his friend's company at a not-to-be-sneezed-at day rate. So he would have a full day on his own with DS. I would have a full day on my own, and weekends would be family time.

Sorry if this has been complicated. I just feel so bad that there are all these people out there working more than they want to, and WOHPs and SAHPs cherishing their days spent with their kids and here we are looking for ways out of it. What am I looking for here? Permission I guess, or a stern talking to. Please be gentle. Again I have had 3.5 hours sleep because of my DS - from 3-6.30am.

I think you are so stressed about it all that you are transferring all the stress on to him which is why he is so unsettled at home and so happy at nursery. It's a vicious circle. You need to chill out more at home and go with the flow.

I suggest putting him in nursery for the whole 5 days, rather than increase it to just 4. (perhaps temporarily) and having some time to your selves to recharge your batteries (perhaps pick him up a bit earlier sometimes?). You need to get out of the pattern you are now in and have a break from each other. He loves the nursery so don't feel guilty. Remove the stress at home.

I know, from experience, how being tired can change your reactions to things and everything seems to be so much harder. Catch up on sleep when he is at nursery for the extra hours or do things you find relaxing then you will relax/cope much better when you look after him.

Also, when he wakes up in the night try your hardest to be relaxed and calm with him. Again, IME, i know how that note of impatience creeps into your voice in the middle of the night and I also know how this makes it much worse/takes much longer to settle the child.
His tantrums are worse in the day because he is tired. He is tired and upset so he wakes up more therefore he is even tireder. Again a vicious circle, compounded by your own tiredness, that somehow you need to break.

Try and step back. Deal with him calmly and matter of factly when he tantrums/wakes in the night and try your best to concentrate on the positives. Lots of cuddles and praise. I know you said you are trying to do lots of fun things but he will pick up on the fact that these are forced and you are stressed. Don't try too hard to be perfect. Do everything to can to catch up on sleep and relax about things.

YANBU to put him in nursery for as much extra time as you can to break the vicious circle you have found yourself in - not just to work the extra day but to give yourself breathing space/ time at home on your own (even just temporarily to break the cycle.

Good luck

Sorry, people posting faster than I can keep up with. You are all being so helpful, and I am very grateful.

My friends ds was a child who thrived on company - very gregarious. Loved being surrounded by large groups of people, other children etc but was bored stiff at home with the sole company of one adult. Maybe your child is also very outgoing and similar character. Sounds like everyone will be happier if he has more time at nursery, and that's no bad thing.
Not sure what to suggest about the sleep though. Maybe if money is no issue you could have a private child development-type person observe his bedtime, sleeping arrangements etc and see if anything can be suggested?
Good luck - hope things improve soon. :)

DS has been grumbly and miserable (up to six hours crying per day for example) and a poor sleeper since he was born.

My sympathies-mine is the same, especially when at home with me.
He's now almost 2 1/2 and it's only in the last month that day-long tantrums have stopped.
We increased the hours he goes to nursery (2 and a half days a week) for work-related reasons, and we found that it helped things at home. He genuinely loves being there.

No need for guilt-tripping if everyone is happier, is there?

If you think that sending your DS to nursery an extra day will improve the quality of your family life , why hesitate?

Good luck :)

i also suggest reading a bedtime story after/ instead of the cbeebies hour. TV stimulates whereas a bedtime story relaxes/creates intimacy and may help him sleep better at night.

Tire him out with lots of playing in the park/toddler gym classes etc?

I get that he's a big boy (DD is a big girl) but providing he's eating his solids well I think he could probably go through without a night feed. I wonder if he has wind after his feed, if it's from a bottle? Digestion at night can make sleep lighter. I also wonder about teeth?

With regard to night terrors / bad dreams, I found that explaining to DD what a bad dream was helped quite a lot (although she was more like 2 so it might be a little early for that).

cross posts

Reading more of your posts makes me think that our children are very similar.

It's hard work. The only thing I can suggest about sleeping better is taking him to the swimming pool. It's the only that makes mine physically tired. Otherwise he only sleeps 6-7 hours a day max.

6-7 hours in the night I meant
He also sleeps 1,5-2 hours during the day.

If he's frustrated then yes, I imagine there are some things you could do to address that -- which is why I really think it's a good idea to look into some specialist help.

You say you would work the extra day for the sanity, not the money -- so why not use that extra money to bring in a specialist?

I agree about the night feed -- my DS is a big lad also but hasn't fed in the night since 6months I think. They don't need it and it may help unsettle him.

FWIW my DS would act a bit like yours on the days when he's got a bad cold and hasn't slept -- i.e., when he's really physically bothered and unhappy. Maybe this is just the way your DS is right now and he'll grow out of it but I think you could investigate a bit further to see if there is something physically or environmentally bothering him.

I have every sympathy for you, but I feel you're passing the buck a bit here.

Perhaps more 1 on 1 parent time would help your child?

I don't know...just thinking out loud really.

Sorry, I have not read the full thread, but couldn't help but picking up the phrase "on his terms though so we are not "in his face" more than he wants us to be"

Ok, I'm sure that at nursery most stuff is not done on his terms. Hence probably why he behaves well at nursery but not at home. He is too young to know what he wants, if you leave him with the responsibility to decide what to do, you may be stressing him over.

I agree with those that say you need to get the sleeping pattern sorted, both child and parents will feel much better and prepared for the day if they had a full night of sleep. I know is difficult, and getting him into a routine will be a good fight, but one that is worth fighting. Once the routine is in place, things will improve enormously. (You can try to follow the nursery routine when he is at home, he will fight back, but for a limited time, once he knows the routine is here to stay things will get easier)

I don't see any problem in sending him to nursery for another day, it will give you the respite you and particularly your partner needs (he also needs to be able to focus on his studies), and will provide more structure to your week.

I know we have to drop the night feeds, they are ridiculous at his age. But they are the most likely thing to work to get him to go back to sleep. We tried to be meticulous with winding him, but he won't have it. I get kicked in the stomach and he throws himself out of my arms to try to get into his cot. Once I did actually drop him - into the cot fortunately. Now we just feed and put him straight in. He is an awful teether, nothing works except drugs so we have been giving this too at the moment. I would rather give an unnecessary dose than have him perhaps be in pain.

He loves Waybuloo and In the Night Garden - they have been great at telling him it is time to go to sleep soon. By the end of it he is crying and pointing at the stairs. No time for a story. On the average day we read about 30 stories to him - no joke - his initiation!

As well as nursery we go to Messy Play, two supermarket trips per week which he likes, a music group and a meet up with my army of mum and dad friends at least once a week in addition to the groups. I think the swimming idea is an excellent one. I also think he loves company of other children but sometimes when there are too many he gets very clingy and tearful. So it's hard to know what to do for the best. Too much stimulation? Not enough??

I need to go out soon - nursery pick up then meeting friend and little girl at the park - but will check thread later.

Most children will behave like that if they are allowed to.

Unless there are underlying causes, which doesn't seem to be the case as he is doing well in nursery, I would say that you need to get your act together and ensure a sensible routine is put in place and is respected by you all. (sometimes is easier to give up and do what the child wants, but that is worse in the long term).

Piglet - what else can we do? Genuinely interested in your suggestions, not being arsey. We have set wake up time, before which he doesn't get taken out of his cot (6.30-7am). Breakfast 8am (same as nursery). Nap 11.30-1 (same as nursery) Lunch at 1. Nursery do lunch before nap, that is the only difference. 4.00-4.30 first dinner. 6.00 second dinner (small bowl of cereal and pudding) in front of CBeebies. 7.00 milk bed. Every single day. Activities fit round that schedule.

I can sympathise greatly with your situation OP.

I have 2 boys. DS1 (4) and DS2 (22 months). Both have the same environment, same 2 days at nursery and 1 with GP's. Both treated the same regarding activities, food, etc.

DS1 was an easy baby/toddler, DS2 is high octane and can be very grumpy! Just two different personalities right from the start!

DS2 has to be on the go constantly, always into stuff, getting into mischief. He gets frustrated very easily and pretty ticked off if he doesn't get his own way. It's VERY full on.

I would second the suggestions to mention things to your HV/GP, maybe think about cranial osteopathy etc. However, this could just be a developmental thing and is likely to pass with time. Nursery is very full on and this sounds as if it suits your DS. Maybe try and extra day for a little bit (without increasing your hours in the first instance to see if it works)?

The only thing I might try is cutting out CBeebies before bed. Maybe it's a bit stimulating before sleeping? I'm not criticising, just might be something to try.

Just stick with the routine until it becomes part of the day.

Make no allowances, it will be difficult in the first days but eventually it will pay off.

The Supper Nanny book have some very good strategies to get a routine into place. The key is to be consistent.

I am no expert but I think its worth trying to inmprove things at home before putting him in nursery for an extra day.

I do agree with the suggestions to ditch TV before bed and to read to him at bedtime instead, much easier for him to slow down and relax before bed that way.
I'd also consider giving him one meal in the evening at say 5 ish and ditching the 6pm second supper, it sounds as if this may well raise his blood sugar levels and keep him bouncy/awake, esp if you give him cereal and pudding - too late for these suger rich foods IMO.

Have you tried, raher than focussing on his needs all the time, to have more ordinary family time with him, doing chores such as shooping, cooking, tidying up etc?

Perhaps giving him too much attention is hard for him to deal with.

That and the lack of sleep...

SHould add I have 2 DSs and like Mishy, one is fairly even tempered, the other is loud, energetic, chaotic, exhausting, so I do sympathise!

P.S. The routine is not just for the sake of your child, you will feel more rested and more in control if you have it sorted.

I understand how difficult it could be, I have a child who doesn't need much sleep and has very marked hyperactivity traits. Without the routine ,I know I would be in a very bad place. Is the routine get us through the days in an acceptable shape.

I would not feel remotely bad about putting him in a nursery full-time, two days a week pick him up early and have some fun. You sound exhausted and like you are not enjoying your time with him anyway. Some children are difficult toddlers, they seem to throw/head-bang their way through this phase and all you can do is stand back!

You have had good advice, though, on possible changes. The most obvious is night-times, the trouble is that all his fussing is getting him exactly what he wants at night, comfort, a bottle, and you for hours on end. I could not work in a demanding job on 3.5 hours sleep a night and for everyone's sanity, I would take him to a sleep clinic/doctors for some expert advice and then follow it. He may never be a great sleeper, but at least you should be able to put him in his room and leave him to it, even if he potters about.

Another thing is you do seem to let him rule the roost by his tantrums, it all sounds very over-stimulating, 30 books a day is just too much! I'm all for reading, but what is happening is a continual power struggle, he asks for a book, you feel guilty and read it, he asks for another book (looking like he will flip if you don't do it), then you read it and so on. He doesn't want the actual books, he wants you to do what you tell him. Set a limit on things, say 'I'm going to read you two books, then go and do the washing, you help me' then read them and move to your task, even if he flips out (and let's face it, he flips out lots anyway so a bit more crying will be just more of the same). You need to get back the boundaries and firm calmness into both the nighttime and daytime and stop trying to please this little boy. He's unpleasable anyway, so the best thing to do is to set your own routine and needs and carry on (which is what they do at nursery).

Don't take this as a criticism, he sounds very hard anyway, but I think with trickier toddlers you have to be a) calm and a bit distanced, not getting wrapped up with their screaming/emotions and b) have very clear boundaries so they are not constantly renegotiated.

Piglet, I think the OP has just outlined her daily routine to you that she sticks - what are you suggesting she do?

Also OP has said that he settles for bed fine, so I'm not sure that TV before bed is much of an issue here tbh.

My DS1 was similar at that age. In retrospect I now believe that he hated being a baby, and life got easier for us as each milestone ticked off esp walking and talking. It was nothing to do with routine or lack of, it was just him. So not long now- I strongly suspect your life will improve soon. (My DS2 was a flexible angel BTW!)

OP, the main difference between home and nursery IME is that there are other kids there. What is he like at toddler group etc (if there are not too many kids there - you mentioned he is clingy if it is busy)? What is he like when you have people over at your house?

I am clutching at straws a bit because I don't have any experience of this kind of behaviour, only phases of it, so it must be soul destroying!