To increase days at work to get away from grumpy toddler

[auburnlizzy78]

I feel AWFUL about this, first off.

Situation - I went back to work three days a week in Sept 2011 after a year mat leave. Mine is a high profile, important job which I love and need for my self esteem more than I realised . I had PTSD and PND for much of DS's first year. DH gave up work in the summer to help me. DS has been grumbly and miserable (up to six hours crying per day for example) and a poor sleeper since he was born. DH earned about a third of my wage, and we didn't need his income really. We then decided he would do a masters degree part time with a view to getting a better job at the end of it (August 2013). The rest of the time he would be a SAHD. The two days he has lectures are my non working days. So DS has a parent at home all the time and we are fortunate enough for that to be the case until he's almost three. Many people would LOVE to be in our situation - I realise this.

We sent DS off to a wonderful local nursery for two half days when he was eight months old before DH gave up work and I was very ill and needed respite. He LOVES it. Never cries, eats well, very very happy. Two months ago, because of how awful my DS continues to be when at home, we upped it to a third half day because DH was having trouble coping with him for four days straight (Friday to Monday). My big strong tough DH actually broke down in tears one night - we do so much for our DS, fun, stimulation, interaction, cuddles, good food, nice home and all he does is cry and have terrible terrible tantrums ALL DAY unless we are with other people and not at home - and you can't be out for twelve hours a day every day. He has very disturbed sleep for no obvious reason. It is breaking us. Maybe one good day out of seven. Weekends are generally miserable although we do go out and do stuff and try to have fun with him.

DH put the idea to me today to do a fourth day at work each week, and put DS in nursery for three full days. Work would bite my arm off to accept. We don't really need the extra money though. DH would spend the time studying or working ad hoc for his friend's company at a not-to-be-sneezed-at day rate. So he would have a full day on his own with DS. I would have a full day on my own, and weekends would be family time.

Sorry if this has been complicated. I just feel so bad that there are all these people out there working more than they want to, and WOHPs and SAHPs cherishing their days spent with their kids and here we are looking for ways out of it. What am I looking for here? Permission I guess, or a stern talking to. Please be gentle. Again I have had 3.5 hours sleep because of my DS - from 3-6.30am.

Ignore me - I see you are being offered advice about other issues.

I had no PND issues, DD was a dream baby until she hit the terrible twos at 19 months. I would have cheerfully sold her to the circus at some points, and dreaded the two days a week I had sole care of her. I had to fill the day up wth activities with other people as I hated being on my own with her as she was whingy/tantrummy/nothing was ever right or good enough. I was desperate to up my days at work, but couldn't for various other reasons.

We're out the other side of that (for now!) and it's much better, but don't feel guilty about wanting more of a break from a toddler.

I don't think you should feel guilty about the extra nursery day. But I do agree with other posters about getting to the bottom of the issues involved.

I would definitely drop the night feed, for starters. Then have some kind of behaviour strategy that is consistent and gives boundaries. He is obviously still very young, but I think different children need different approaches, and it sounds like your DS would benefit from some firm structures (as well as daily routine). Being very firm about the night feed could be the start of this.

If he was a happy chappy and all was well I wouldn't necessarily say the above, BTW - but as he is so unsettled it seems like something must change - at home as well as extra nursery if needed.

It sounds like you are very keen to please him - which is great of course! - but could give him too much of a sense of power over you, which could be overwhelming at his age.

Maybe talk to a child psychologist or similar if you can afford it? Not because there is anything 'wrong' with him but because of how the family dynamic is affecting you all.

Good luck and please stop feeling guilty - sounds like you are lovely parents.

You need to strike a balance work wise so you are all as happy as can be. If you want to work more - then do. To me though it does sound like you are trying to escape a relationship problem. I think you could work more but also work out what the problem is and try to resolve it. Do you read many books on child rearing? It might help to reflect. Have you tried Toddler Taming or The complete secrets of happy children?

It does dound like the PND, teething and sleeplessness have been very hard going. I think if you crack the sleep, you will all feel much much happier.

It sounds to me like your son is testing the boundaries at home. Thi is quite normal to a certain extent but you still need to learn some stratagies. What do you do when he tantrums? What normally happens?

I now think my DDs were influenced by my feelings when I was at home with them. We moved with DH work and so I was with them with no friends or family (we moved between two places monthly ) and probably had pnd and also not the temperament to sit about entertaining small child/baby.

DD1, in particular, was colicky and demanding - now suspect she picked up the unhappy vibes from me.

Third DC was a dream but suspect that was partly me being happy and relaxed by then.

OK, to answer:

I think he is a gregarious, sociable child. He LOVES company, completely comes alive esp with other children. Generally fine when they come to our house unless they touch a favourite toy, when he gets very upset. Otherwise fine.
I think he hates being a baby and a toddler. He was AWFUL in the few weeks before he learned to crawl. He does seem desperately frustrated all the time.

Night feed - yes, we will drop this (after my DH's exams!) It feels intuitively cruel but it must be done. None of you who have posted do it and your children are all fine! If it may be unsettling him later in the night then it is solving one problem but creating another really.

Specialist help - yes, we will look into this.

2nd dinner - DS is BIG. 98th centile for height and weight. HV suggested the cereal to help fill him up. Actually, the very very rare nights he's slept through we have given him protein for the second dinner. Maybe instead of cereal to raise the blood sugar (although we give him multigrain which is low GI I think) we will stick with a couple of chipolatas.....

Nursery - You've all made it clear that we need to sort the underlying problem as well, which we will. But I think we will try three days and see what happens. Can't afford to do it unless I go back four days. There is no difference to his sleep or afternoon temperament on nursery mornings.

Day naps - I don't think he could last without one. He's not ready to drop it yet I feel sure - if he's late getting it he goes hysterical.

Sensory processing checklist - fascinating link, thanks. There is some that fits in each section but not enough to ring very loud alarm bells. Yet!

PND - do I feel guilty and try to do whatever he wants to make up for the earlier months. Yes. Absolutely. And I feel I'm still getting it wrong with him as he's so unhappy. I'm almost phobic about his crying now, as I've lived with it for so long. I physically shake sometimes when he's really going for it. My DH is harder, he is more able to ignore it. I try and "fix" the issue - distract with a toy, offer different food, cuddle, sing at him. Then when that doesn't work I lose my temper, and tell him loudly to "GO AWAY" - lugging him off to another room and dumping him on his cushion until he calms down. DH doesn't bother and just ignores. No difference in DS's response.

DS is ruling the roost, definitely, you have told me that quite clearly in the above. Just need to figure out how and if we can sort it out successfully.

Sorry for long post, typos and bad grammar. Very tired and need to get to bed soon as have work tomorrow.

Think you are right about the naps - some children are still having these at 4 yo and IME dropping / reducing day sleep doesn't improve night sleep - if anything the more they sleep the more they want to iyswim.

Good luck. :)

Auburn, I don't know if this helps, but my dd1 was a tricky toddler from about a year, highly defiant and really challenging. I was trying to be the 'modern loving never raising their voice and just ignoring them/distracting them when they are naughty' mum. This worked perfectly with dd2. Unfortunately, it turned out that with dd1, this was a disaster, the more I ignored her tantrums, the more her behaviour escalated, the more I paid her heaps of undivided attention and praise, the more she wanted. In the end, I realised that the ignoring bad behaviour mantra wasn't going to work for us. What worked was a really calm, but really clear 'zero tolerance' policy. So, if she pinched me, it was one warning, then out of the room for time out. If she had a big tantrum, again, I'd put her in the other room til she'd finished. No deliberate food throwing, hitting, pinching, mega-screaming was tolerated (obviously she was allowed to be a child). I wasn't mean, because there were clear consequences for anything, one warning followed by time out (putting her in my bedroom). I could then stay really calm about it as I knew where we were heading if things went wrong, luckily we only needed a few incidents for her to start behaving better, and we ended up having a much happier and closer time the next few months.

He may be a little young for this, mine was just over two when I realised we had to change, but you need a plan for next time he starts screaming and crying (even if it is saying 'mummy doesn't like that noise' and locking yourself in the bathroom til he stops). The lack of control you both have frightens you both and it just escalates (although totally understandably as you are both sleep deprived).

I think you'll look back on this in a few years and it will have totally changed. It's normal to worry we have created a monster in the toddler years, but it really is a phase, honest.

Full permission to increase your hours. Some babies/toddlers are not good at being babies/toddlers and some parents just don't enjoy that part of development. I didn't/don't. I work full time and go off to work with joy in my heart every day. It's such a terrible waste to feel guilt over things you shouldn't feel guilty about. You are doing a lot to try to understand what's going on with your son and I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. In the mean time, don't feel you personally have to be the answer to everything.

As for how your DS is, it does sound as though the dynamic isn't quite right. You've had loads of good advice from others. I think some boundaries need to be put in place. R2peepoo expressed it really well I think. I don't have quite the same issues with my son but he can be a total pita and boundaries/ignore strategies have been my response. He started the challenging behaviour at about 18mo (he had some speech delay so that was probably at the heart of it) and I would say it's taken a year for the ignoring and boundaries to start to kick in. So stick at it.

The other thing I would focus on is the sleep thing. One of the problems my son had was recurrent ear infections which I knew nothing about until his eardrum burst. He had none of the normal symptoms but he would fight being put into his bed and would wake up multiple times every night. A colleague's son has a very similar pattern of night waking and he has been diagnosed with sleep apnoea as a result of enlarged adenoids. In both cases, the sleep had a terrible effect on behaviour. It can be difficult to get GPs to take these things seriously so think about getting a paed to review your son. I fought for a year for my son to get grommets - one year later my life is transformed but I'll never get that first 1.5 years of his life back again and it was miserable.

Good luck!

Thanks for coming back with all the details! Two thoughts:

1. On the food issue: My DS is also 95% for height and weight. He has breakfast, lunch, mid-afternoon snack and late dinner. We do try to fill him up at dinner and I think this helps his sleep. Does your DS like cheese? Luckily ours does and eats a lot with his dinner -- has lots of calories, protein and dairy so a good filler.

I think cereal and pudding are not the best for that time of night. What a strange thing for the HV to recommend!

1. On the crying: I mentioned Harvey Karp before and i think he is also good on tantrums and how to respond. Basically, your best bet is to try to head off the tantrum before it starts (his book has lots of tips for this) but once it really starts, there is not a whole lot you can do -- their brain is fully engaged on its emotional side and is not really listening to anything you say.

We do something similar to Mumsy, we put DS in his room and tell him calmly that he needs to calm down, so we are leaving him to calm himself for a few minutes and we will be back. It works very well for us.

And, it sounds like you and DH have completely different strategies on this. It really would be better if you could get on the same page. Toddlers like routine and predictability, if they are getting really different responses from you then it might unsettle them a bit.

I totally sympathise - I had a toddler just like this and nursery was a godsend.

Roll on primary school, that's what I say! It totally knackers them and provides the stimulation required for children like this!

If you and your DH hate being at home all day with your DS, he hates being at home all day with you and loves nursery - go for it.

But I would be slightly worried at the situation.

Hi folks, DH here. I have read the whole thread, thanks for everyones answers, I can see why she spends so long on here now ;) She has gone to bed but I hope she won't mind me jumping in.

When his problems came to a head before (constant string of colds, coughs etc) about three months ago we took him to GP, who referred us to paeds at hospital to see if anything serious was underlying it. They did blood tests etc and found nothing - I think he is still fundamentally healthy. The only physical thing it might be is teething, but all our friends kids have teeth and are/were nothing like this!

I try to ignore his bad behaviour and reward good behaviour. If he's crying for no reason I'm not scared to ignore him and let him get on with it, once he's calmed down and I will start chatting away to him etc. I always make an effort to praise him when he's eating well (for example) and ignore him/walk away if he starts throwing food around.

Normally when I'm at home with him, I spend about half the time actively playing with him (blocks, stacking cups, books etc) and half the time doing other stuff (housework etc) while he amuses himself. Some days (if I am really knackered) I will stick an old film on the TV and "let him get on with it" for a couple of hours - although I am in the same room as him and will take an interest if he chooses to bring me toys etc. When he's having a bad day (getting more frequent I think) he is incredibly clingy, only wants to be carried around and scream the moment I put him down, move away from him or (god forbid) leave the room, even if he can see/hear me. As stated before, I try and ignore him when this happens but it doesn't seem to reduce this behaviour.

Nights: these have been awful this week. He has always had a nightfeed but normally he sleeps soundly for four-six hours, wakes for a bottle, and goes straight back to sleep until 7am. It's irritating to have to get up, but I can be back in bed in 5 minutes so that doesn't disturb my night so much. Recently, he has been screaming full blast at 5 minutes for an hour, then sleeping quietly for an hour, then screaming again. Sometimes feeding him knocks him out, but more often than not he doesn't really want anything from us, he's just screaming his head off while fast asleep, all night long!

I can't add much more except to thank you all again for your input.

Something is disturbing him and I agree it's not teeth. My son once screamed non-stop for 6 hours one night. In desperation I took him to A&E at 3am. They diagnosed teething . Two days later his eardrum burst. It had been yet another ear infection which the A&E drs had not been able to see.

I would seriously get another opinion from the paediatricians. My colleague (with the adenoidal son) was repeatedly fobbed off by GPs and paeds and it was only when she saw an ENT paed that she made progress. GP and general paeds had told her repeatedly there was no problem with his adenoids but the ENT paed spotted the adenoids and said that only an ENT specialist could have seen this because the others don't have the right instruments to examine the adenoids properly.

BTW I am not generally a believer in this stuff but it was a cranial osteopath who finally put me on the right track to finding what was wrong with my son. For months I thought it was reflux and my son was on endless reflux meds but when that still didn't work I took my son to the cranial osteo and she very firmly told me he had pain in his head somewhere. That was finally what put me onto thinking about ear infections.

He seems to have the bulk of his food and milk between 1600 and morning!

He may well have tummy ache, or be woken by the need to poo/wee.

I think you need to shift the balance back to 'normal' daytime feeding; big children don't need more meals or considerably more calories than smaller children. Maybe try giving him a jumbo breakfast feast, decent lunch and just one dinner with a milk drink or milky pudding afterwards.

Perhaps he's just about to walk? Or have a language burst?

I've done toddler tantrums three times. My first was just like your DS. It was awful. It also seemed like he changed when he went to nursery full-time.

With hindsight though I think with the younger ones I knew the yowling, throwing, hitting and throwing themselves about is a temporary madness. They grow out of it.

With our last DS (2) I caught myself looking at him wistfully this evening whilst he was screaming "I want it. Come back" again and again, whilst throwing himself on the floor and hitting a kitchen cabinet, at a hot air balloon which was floating away. Oh to still believe the world revolves around you that much!

So my two piece of advice ... chant together, "it won't always be like this" and try to think about how if you can't change the situation how you can change how you feel about it.

I wholeheartedly recommend 'raising your spirited child' by Mary Kurcinka Sheedy. I have one, DD who is now 3.5yrs. It gets better with time, from about 18mnths til 2 yrs was nightmarish, she drove me to the point of nr insanity on a daily basis. I would often be in tears, unable to handle her tantrums or handle her constant sleeplessness. She is a million times better now, though she throws the odd tantrum, never stops talking and can be very persistent. She is also very extroverted, loves preschool and is very intelligent (been practising her alphabet tonight, off her own back!).

So my advice to you - buy the book named above. Don't feel guilty about using the nursery more, he sounds like a 'spirited extrovert' so he is probably well suited to the nursery set-up and will get a lot out of it. It will get better! You are trying your best, you can't do more than that.

Hi Mr Lizzy!

As I said earlier, a lot of what you are saying sounds like what my DS is like when he's ill. Maybe some kind of ear/throat/sinus problem could be at work. Twice we have seen DS act like this (clingy, crying) when he didn't seem ill, but took him to the doc and found he had an ear infection.

I understand you don't want to encourage bad behaviour, but if he is clingy and crying because he is in pain, and you ignore him, that will just increase his anxiety and make him more unsettled.

I think you should go back to the GP and be prepared to be really pushy. It really sounds like something could be physically bothering him.

I could have written your OP. My DD was exactly as you describe your DS. I resigned from my stellar blue-chip career in order to accommodate her vast needs, though I was daily beyond breaking point. She had night terrors, slept for max 40 mins at a time, day and night, month after weary month, with all the attendant sleep deprivation behavioural problems. Eventually I returned to work just for my own sanity, and sent her to nursery, which was the making of her. She initially went for 3 days p.w. then I upped that to 4 d.w. She started napping on cue, got better at night sleeping (though not perfect, a great improvement). When her sleeping improved her behaviour did too, and I found that work was great respite for me. I needn't have worried about being too tired for work (I had worried about that), I found that my desk job was way more restful than looking after DD. She's 6yo now and improving with age, she's much calmer now.

Several things - don't know if you are going to get as far as reading this or not but;

Night feeds - my DD still wakes for a drink in the night (19mo) and she is a beast to get back to sleep, she has NEVER EVER slept longer than 5 hours and she has done that about 4 times since birth 7pm-12am. We both work and we are on our knees - but DH also always wakes for a drink in the night and often a snack too so we figure as long as he is then she might need it too. DD can get very aggressive in the night so I feel your pain.

Daytime screaming - yup we have this too, always has to be close, always has to be doing something, always has to be right up close and entertained. I thought it was normal although DD goes to nursery 3x a week 8-5 and she is apparently an independent soul there who does her own thing. My personal bugbear is being shouted and screamed at, DD is nonverbal as yet and I am convinced this is the root cause of many of her frustration.

Often crying have you had him checked for ear infections? DD has them almost continually and she is also a horrendous teether, full on drugs to get her to even sleep for an hour.

I would ditch the TV before bed, I would also set some boundaries and explain one book or walk after washing goes on and just walk away. Mean but DD doesn't screech anymore.

Finally (honest) wonder weeks - what you said about him being a nightmare the weeks before crawling have you come across the wonder weeks website/book? DD is the same with development leaps - think the world was ending she isn't that big so I put her in a sling on my back when I need to do things.

And no - YANBU to consider more nursery - if we could afford it I might think about it too!

Also - there is another bout of separation anxiety isn't there in toddlers?

I had 2 like that

My oldest,it turned out had a sensitivity to food colours,I stopped them totally and within a week I had a very happy, content, non tantruming child who was actually able to focus and sleep. i could always tell if hed had any colours anywhere outside the home by his behavior when he got home

My Ds2, it turned out had HUGE tonsils and adenoids that were actually causing sleep apnea ( he was 2 when we found this out ). He was exhausted because he was actually waking up to 30 times an hour, even when he didnt actually wake enough to disturb me iykwim but he was a terrible sleeper at the best of times. He was always bad tempered and grumpy but that all stopped after he had his tonsils and adenoids out, we used to call him laughing boy after that.

Hi,

I don't think you need to feel bad about increasing nursery time. However, your DS sounds upset and insecure in some way. Having PTSD and PND must have been so difficult for all of you. Have you had trouble forming a secure attachment with DS do you think? I know this sometimes happens when mums are struggling - absolutely not your fault, just the outcome of your illness. I wonder if this might play a role in DS's behaviour and how you feel about him.

One thing that really struck me is how detached you sound from your DS as a person - I know you're probably just trying to list everything you do in order to give the whole story, but I wonder if it might be possible that you see your DS as a bundle of issues/a heap of needs to fulfil rather than as a whole person?

I also wonder if he might be overstimulated. You seem to do a lot of activities and have a sort of 'programme' for him at home. Does he ever just sit quietly playing by himself and getting immersed in something? My DD always calmed down when I offered her an 'invitation', I'd I laid out an activity, eg a big bowl of water plus different sizes of smaller containers to do some pouring. Then just sit back and watch quietly. Doesn't have to be water, could be sand, porridge, dry pasta... Or letting her loose with a bug sheet of paper and crayons. Basically I think some time for your DS to 'explore' something might be nice for him.

I'm also surprised that you ignore him when he cries and clings on to you. I know it gets wearing when it's All. The. Time. But he's telling you that he needs physical attention to feel nicer. Have you tried putting him in a sling on your back eg when you're cooking or washing up so he's close to you but you can get on with things? I know he's heavy, but if you put him in your back he'll feel lighter than in your front.

The other thing I was surprised by is his meal structure. I would recommend offering him a snack between 8 and 1, and perhaps a snack at 3 and 4.30ish, then dinner at 6ish. He really really does not need cereal in the evening! It does nothing for children. He can get carbs from snacks like pitta bread or English muffins or whatever, protein from eg hummus or yoghurt or cheese. I also recommend strips of pepper or generally chopped up veggies for snack.

Most of all I would recommend not expecting too much of him, he's only little and mostly sounds like he just feels a bit unhappy. I know it sounds lame, but try to really look him in the eyes when you're playing and talking with him, and take some time to feel more positive about him instead of pathologising everything he does.

He is 18 months old - most, or maybe all, toddlers have strops at this age - they get over it. I used to have to gradually feed my DD chocolate buttons 1 by 1 at this age to stop her stropping long enough to have her hair trimmed or her feet measured (still have to wear a disguise when i go into that shop to avoid being recognised as the mother of THAT child!) She is now a cheerful, hardworking and totally lovely 16 yr old.
Give yourself a break and have a day to yourself whilst your child is at nursery for an extra day - it will help you get some perspective and some time off from your demanding job and toddler. You are over-thinking this - he is a baby and you are the adult in charge, even if it doesn't feel like it atm. This will pass.