to wonder how people can justify smoking during pregnancy?

[Archemedes]

I know this is an emotive thread, and I'm not talking about people who try and cut down slowly I'm talking about people who make no effort to stop.

How do people justify that?

Where I live I see alot of it and suprisingly its not mainly 'chavyy women' as people would think.

AIBU to wonder why someone wouldnt even try to stop?

YANBU to wonder, but maybe a bit Unreasonable to ask. I'm assuming that women who smoke during their pregnancy don't actually think "I know, I'm going to smoke as much as I can throughout this pregnancy in order to put my unborn baby at risk". Don't judge others as I'm sure you wouldn't want them to judge you.

Flangelina...but what I said is my opinion.

No amount of conversation is ever going to change the fact that smoking whilst pregnant is dangerous for the baby.

I'm off now. All this is increasing my heartrate and causing stress.

Because you refuse to accept the validity of criticism for doing one foetus harming activity, whilst continuing to slag others for engaging in another. If it's alright for you to hoik your judgeypants up for one, it's alright for others to do the same in disapproval of the other. But you won't have that. Hence the hypocrisy. And the possibility that one is more harmful than the other doesn't negate the harm done by the less harmful activity.

Sorry that above was at Everlong.

In reply to Flora nobody said smoking wasn't harmful. That's why your insistence on airing your opinions to other pregnant women at all costs is a problem. If smoking weren't so harmful, you'd just be annoying. As it is, when you or anyone else behaves in a way that has the potential to damage cessation efforts with pregnant smokers, it matters.

Erm...pregnant women don't have to justify smoking, not to you, not to themselves and not to anyone else.

Smoking during pregnancy is not illegal and pregnant people can do what they damn well please within the law, just like every other citizen.

I don't understand these threads. Really I don't. What on earth is the point, other than for people to come on and feel all superior? But then, who do the posters feel superior to? I've yet to see anyone come on to one of these threads saying "Well I smoked 20 a day, every day of my pregnancy. DC was fine, is fit and healthy"

What on earth would you say if someone came on and said "I smoked 20 a day when I was pregnant, DC was prem and is still very poorly, but I didn't have the willpower to give up". Would you lambast them? Would you light torches and wave pitchforks until they left mn?

God forbid someone posted "I smoked when I was pregnant, DC was prem and died of SIDS at 6 mths old" would you be vile to that poster and call them 'selfish' and 'irresponsible' etc etc. If not, why not? I mean if posters believe all they are saying here, why would it not be justified?

What the hell are threads like this supposed to achieve?

Nobody said it wasn't Everlong. I think your implication here is that talking about anything else is off topic. But talking about things people have done in this very thread, and the impact they have on pregnant smokers, is on topic.

So once again, you're a hypocrite and you're not helping. If you keep doing what you're doing, we'll know that the delicious pleasure of condemning other women is more important to you than promoting foetal health. That doesn't just apply to you btw.

They can't justify it.

No Everlong we won't agree to disagree. That's because I'm right and you aren't. It is a fact that maternal stress is bad for a foetus, and that you could choose to refrain from MN arguments but haven't. There is no getting round this, whether you like it or not. If you insist on your right to loudly judge others for one but refuse to accept the same for yourself, you're a hypocrite.

And it's a good job I don't smoke. Because if I did, your self indulgent lecturing might well have undermined the chance of me quitting, thus having negative consequences for my foetus. If foetal health is as important to you as you claim, you'd care about that and want to do what you could to stop it.

Great posts from Eve and Tolalola btw.

Everlong I've never said that maternal stress is worse than smoking for a foetus. I don't know whether it is or not. I do know, though, that the fact that some maternal stress is unavoidable has nothing to do with the fact that some isn't. Like arguing on MN. Either you think it's ok to condemn women for avoidable harmful behaviour, or you don't. Simple as. Having stuck to the things that are unequivocally correct is why I'm right and you, when you disagree, are wrong.

And MN is real life. People read it, and can be influenced by it. Pregnant women have read this thread. Given the numbers of pregnant women who smoke, its highly likely that a pregnant smoker has or will read this. Your comments, like it or not, might impact on the possibility of her giving up. Empathetic, decorous behaviour would be to acknowledge this and to tailor your words accordingly.

Silly me for thinking this was a discussion forum where you could voice an opinion.

How on earth in this day and age people can defend anyone smoking in pregnancy and think that people are not allowed to say 'it's wrong' outloud...I am baffled.

Midwives encourage pregnant mothers to quit, they even give leaflets out about quitting (!!!)...I don't think my opinion is a shocking one to anyone! And I am not the only one saying that either.

I respect other peoples views but really, but some of the comments here are a bit nasty now. But not causing me any stress I might add.

well you said it everlong

Everlong the things that are unequivocally right are that:

• smoking and maternal stress are both harmful to the foetus. You have agreed with both of these
• while some stresses are unavoidable, getting riled up posting on MN is not one of them.
• however upset you get at pregnant smokers, some of them get more defensive and entrenched in their behaviour when people condemn them. As such, condemnation is potentially unhelpful to foetal health.

I am adamant that I am right because all of those things are correct. I have been no less adamant than you, the difference is that your position is illogical. You seem to think it's only ok to pillory pregnant women taking avoidable risks when they're avoidable risks you don't approve of. You're entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled not to be argued with when you post on discussion forums.

Back so soon Flora? You said before that the stress would increase your heartrate. If I were the sort of person who thought they had the moral right to hector pregnant women, I'd be tutting considerably. Instead, I'll just point out once again that your behaviour is counter-productive. Of course you can say whatever you want about smokers on discussion boards. You just can't get upset when someone points out to you how your attitude to them might discourage cessation efforts, thus harming their foetuses. Either you prioritise your right to condemn who you like, or foetal health. Can't have it both ways.

And Everlong you have indeed stated that your view is right and others wrong on one issue- namely, that smoking in pregnancy is harmful. There's no problem with this though, because you were absolutely and unequivocally correct. You've shown no respect to the opposing view, and you were right not to.

There may well be, but that isn't the stress I'm discussing. What I've highlighted is the stress that pregnant women can incur when they increase their blood pressure getting into avoidable arguments on the internet. You think it's ok to pillory pregnant women for voluntarily causing harm to the foetus in one way. In that case, logic dictates that you must also be ok with pillorying them for other harmful behaviours. Even those you engage in yourself.

And however harmful smoking is, if you insist on engaging in behaviour that makes a pregnant smoker less likely to stop, you are making things worse for her foetus. No gettting round that. That's why you have to choose between one and the other. Life's a fucker like that.