to wonder how people can justify smoking during pregnancy?

[Archemedes]

I know this is an emotive thread, and I'm not talking about people who try and cut down slowly I'm talking about people who make no effort to stop.

How do people justify that?

Where I live I see alot of it and suprisingly its not mainly 'chavyy women' as people would think.

AIBU to wonder why someone wouldnt even try to stop?

I'm with everlong and have NO respect for women who smoke during preg or the idiots who try to defend them

End of!

I would imagine that those who smoke during pregnancy are well aware of how selfish they are being, and are well educated on the facts. It is an addiction which is obviously hard to break and I'm sure there is the element of "it wont happen to me" involved.

I dare say should anything be wrong with the baby regardless if its smoking related the guilt alone would be sufficient punishment.

Personally I hate to see a pregnant woman smoking I can not understand (as a pregnant ex smoker) why a woman can not just say "its not about me now!" and do it. Its hard yes but its the first "sacrifice" of your old life. Pregnancy is an excellent push to make you quit and never light up again - lets face it it would be bloody stupid to restart again after 9 months!

There are many things that can harm an unborn child that a mother has no control over... smoking isn't one of those things. That is a choice. Your choice.

I know being fat and being stressed (I'm both!) have implications too but its hardly the same as putting hundreds of cancer causing ingredients straight into your baby now is it!

Everlast I've already explained this more than once. The reason I mention arguing on the internet is because it can cause stress and increased heart rate, and is therefore harmful to a foetus. People were doing it whilst on this thread, so it's relevant. This harm is the other type of harm I was mentioning. If you think it's ok to criticise pregnant women for one, you need to accept the logic of criticising them for the other.

Ilikecandy I hope the satisfaction you got from that post outweighs any harm it might do. But if you cared that much about foetal health, you wouldn't have typed it. End of.

I haven't said it does more harm for pregnant women to be stressed than to stop smoking. That's incorrect. I've said they both do harm to a foetus, which is indisputably correct.

I justified it because the doctors in both pregncies told me that if i smoked less than 5 a day then not to bother quitting. They were both very good doctors, working for very good hospitals in NYC and Paris.

I imagine it makes a difference whether you smoke 4 a day or 40 as well. I would be surprised if the risk to the foetus goes up by a lot in the first case.

It's all a bit meh imo. Women do all sorts of risky things while pg. Tbh unless someone is a crack addict I don't care (and even then it wouldn't be my business).

Once again, causing stress and raised heartbeat by getting into avoidable arguments on the internet. This is not the first or even the second time this has been explained to you. If you don't want to go round in circles all night, it would be a good idea to read more carefully.

Should we allow pregnant women to ride motorcycles?

I agree with you everlong. Your not 'gobbing off' either. Just voicing your opinion!

Call it whatever you want. I choose the more pejorative term to convey my disapproval at the unhelpfulness of your comments.

It's been illuminating though, to watch such a good example of people engaging in potentially harmful behaviour, and refusing to accept the consequences of it when they're pointed out. Several people condemning pregnant smokers for their denial of the consequences of their actions, showing the exact same mindset. I'm not sure it qualifies as ironic, but it'd be funny as fuck if not for the potential damage.

Everlong's posts are excellent.

There is no reason for a woman who values the welfare of her unborn baby to smoke.

There are lots of excuses, though.

Life is full of tough choices - adults have to face up to these and accept that sometimes doing something difficult is necessary in order to protect your child.

In response to your question Everlong:

As I've said, I consider the adult human who is carrying the foetus to be more important than the foetus itself. I am pro choice, and don't shy away from the fact that sometimes the interests of the mother and the foetus are irreconcilable. If other pregnant women disagree, I defend their right to make that decision for themselves. So eg a woman who stops taking essential medication in order to avoid foetal damage should be supported in that choice.

I think the best thing is for a pregnant mother to avoid making choices that can harm the foetus where possible and reasonable, but I don't think berating women when they don't do this is legitimate. Quite apart from anything else, it doesn't work. So people who do this are putting their desire to condemn the mother above the health of the foetus.

I'm stunned at thekidsrule's assertion that a baby isn't real until it's born, that in some way it is of less value. That is a shocking, and simply untrue.

I read Kerry Katona defend Stacy Solomon yesterday, she actually said that as they were Silk Cuts they weren't real cigarettes. The mind boggles.

I agree fwiw with everlong.

another potentially interesting thread relagated to the arsehole that is
aibu

Tamisara, I think what thekidsrule is trying to say is that for some women the baby doesn't quite feel real until it is here. There's always a thread knocking around on the pg forum where someone is complaining that their DP doesn't act as though the baby is 'real' and most of the responses agree that for a lot of men it isn't real until the baby has arrived. I think that some women feel the same as well, and find it hard to connect their symptoms, say, with the fact that there actually is a baby coming. I know because that is how I felt for the first half of my pregnancy - I felt bloody awful with sickness but until the baby started really moving around I struggled to get my head around the fact that there actually was a baby growing inside me.

So no, a baby isn't of less value - but it can feel very unreal for some women. And that can lead to them indulging in behaviour that they know to be bad for the baby.

Thanks for that Bella, my bad I just read that comment, and it upset me. I must stay away from emotive threads. Thing is though, if you lose a baby, or have a stillbirth, then the baby is so, so real, that it becomes hard to bear the pain. I wouldn't wish that any mother. I don't think that any health professional, or any compassionate person, would blame the mother, but she would hate herself from having smoked

Very true, tamisara. I had a mc when I was young that didn't bother me too much but having had DD, the thought of it now... god I've got a feeling I will be very, very different when ttc DC2 as it will be a lot more 'real' an experience than being pregnant with DD was. But no need to apologise - if you have had a mc or a stillbirth I am really sorry and you have every right to have those thoughts!