to wonder how people can justify smoking during pregnancy?

[Archemedes]

I know this is an emotive thread, and I'm not talking about people who try and cut down slowly I'm talking about people who make no effort to stop.

How do people justify that?

Where I live I see alot of it and suprisingly its not mainly 'chavyy women' as people would think.

AIBU to wonder why someone wouldnt even try to stop?

I tried to give up smoking when pregnant.

When I found out I was pregnant I was on 20 a day, I cut that down to 1-2 a day but I couldn't give it up completely.

I was and still am ashamed of that. I care very much about the health and welfare of my baby. I did the best that I could at the time.

No-one can justify smoking during pregnancy. It's an awful, terrible thing to do and I feel guilty about it every day. The same way I feel guilty about eating unhealthy food even though I'm overweight.

I know the risks. I don't need people to start a shouty thread calling smokers every name under the sun in order to prove their point. I know the statistics - we all know the statistics.

OP - I really don't see the point in starting this thread. Every mother wants the best for their children and we all know that smoking is wrong. All this thread seems to do is bash the ones that failed - like me - and make them feel worse than they already do. Congratulations to all those who managed to give up smoking the day they found out they were pregnant. I guess that means that you all love your children more than I love mine.

Everlong - I'd like to ask a few questions, not to stir, but to try to get the discussion a bit more focussed on why some people find stopping smoking so difficult. What age were you when you started smoking? And how many of the people around you smoke (DP, friends, family)? Were you otherwise happy and emotionally stable when you gave up?

I ask this because I watched my much loved half-sister smoke and eat herself to a fatal heart attack at the age of 50. She tried and tried to give up (I remember one phone call where she was in tears because her DS had come home from school and pleaded with her to stop because they'd just had a lesson on the dangers of smoking). She just couldn't. And the more I read about it, the more I realise that addiction is very complicated. My sister started very young (about 13 I think), and there's considerable scientific evidence to suggest that starting while the brain is still developing all its dopamine-handling circuitry may re-wire the reward pathways to react unusually strongly to nicotine, making it harder to give up as an adult. There's also a strong social component to smoking, as with all addictions. So if you're in a relationship where your partner smokes, and you grew up in a family where your parents smoked, and all your friends smoke when you go out for an evening, it's going to be a lot harder to quit than if you are mostly surrounded by non-smokers. Finally, nicotine is a naturally occurring antidepressant and many depressed people self-medicate by smoking (zyban was originally developed as an antidepressant). My sister went through decades of an abusive marriage and coping with one of her children having SN (with the education and social services being very unsupportive).

So, yes, I absolutely hate smoking. But I do not hate smokers, they have been exploited by an evil industry which goes out of its way to get people addicted at an early age. Yes, women should not smoke in pregnancy if they are able to do anything about it, but some people (because people's responses to addictive substances are not all the same) may just not be able to do anything about it.

AfternoonDelight. I wouldn't bash you even if you hadn't been able to cut down. Some posters need to walk a mile in others shoes. Hardly anything is as cut and dried as they like to make out. You are a very brave lady. I hope you can see that.

...and that is why I hate these threads.

What about my post? Like I said I'm not going to judge other people for what they do, why does that mean I shouldn't post on a thread

And where have I said anything against those opposed to smoking?

What I dont like is the whole idea that it's ok to have a go at pg smokers, call them names make accusations that they don't love their babys and as afternoon has said make them feel even more shitty.

I'm not opposed to you at all, when have I once put that anything I said was aimed at you?

Where have I said you have called anybody names? I think your getting defensive for no reason

The only person I've been opposed to is ilike and that's because I think she prefers to call names, stir and draw attention to herself by being as ridiculous as possible

Everlong, why do you find it frustrating that other posters see your negative judgements of pregnant women who smoke within the larger context of the morality of risk in pregnant women more generally?

I've only read the first and last page on this thread and a little confused why you are upset that your post is being understood in this manner?

o.k. fair enough. I've five mins before little one wakes up, so I'll jog on.

Mad as a box of frogs

everlong you did say on the first page that smoking in pregnancy is selfish and ignorant

Even if you haven't carried it on through the rest of the thread, it does sound like name calling to me

Right, just read the whole thing. I restate:

Everlong, why do you find it frustrating that other posters see your negative judgements of pregnant women who smoke within the larger context of the morality of risk in pregnant women more generally?

I've only read the first and last page on this thread and a little confused why you are upset that your post is being understood in this manner?

Thanks very much, off to wake the baby.

(Minus the bits about not reading all the pages).

ilikecandyandrunning. You know how hard it was for you to give up smoking - your experience only. It would be foolish to assume that everyone else found it as hard or as easy as you. Different people suffer different side effects and varying degrees of withdrawal. That is why denegrating them doesn't help in the slightest, and can easily make things worse.

Everlong, we're back to the twisting and PA posts then, I thought we had moved past that and onto PARD. No one on this thread *supports women who smoke" as well you know.

What we DON'T support is name calling and making a pregnant woman feel like shit. Whether that person tries to give up or NOT.