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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask the nursery about grace?

514 replies

Stangirl · 16/03/2012 16:06

My DD (2) attends a nursery 2 days a week - since last October. I am very happy with the nursery and love the way the staff are with the kids. DD seems very happy there.

They just had a Mother's Afternoon where the mums were invited in to attend a music and movement session, facepainting, playing, tea with the kids. I went along and it was lovely apart for one thing - one of the children was asked to say grace before the sandwiches and said a few words thanking god. I was shocked by this as I had believed them to be non-religious - teaching and celebrating all festivals etc but not active worshipping. As an avowed atheist I am quite perturbed.

Would you ask them if this is usual and if they are teaching them grace?

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 21:54

Because children will in any even grow up to have their own beliefs you know

Exactly. People seem to forget this when they wish to censor everything their DC comes across.

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 21:56

I would be fuming if they were exposed to the concept without my knowledge.

Really? Why? Would you be happy if your mother had taken that attitude with you?

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 21:56

I would be fuming if my mother expected to control everyone I came across as a DC.

IsItMeOr · 17/03/2012 22:03

Playeatsleep - I agree. My 3yo DS is a constant marvel to me, in terms of what he can understand. However, there is no way that I would even think of talking to him about the concept of God yet. Of course we are helping him to learn what we think are important moral values (be kind, respect other people, etc). But he's in no way ready for that whole thing yet. Yes, we will teach him about other people's beliefs in due course, as part of helping him to learn about the world and the other people in it. If he's curious about religious practices, we'll do what we can to support him in finding out more about it. And I will love him and support him as a person, whatever beliefs he chooses for himself as he grows.

I think that the things we do "to" young children as a society should be carefully thought out in terms of what they are preparing children for. So singing nursery rhymes is a valuable introduction to language. Action songs help them to coordinate their movements and follow simple instructions. So far, so good.

What does practising praying prepare them for? To my mind, it gives them the message that religion is a normal part of everybody's daily life. That's not a lesson that I think all children should be taught.

RevoltingPeasant · 17/03/2012 22:03

exotic but it isn't 'everything', it's one thing which some people have very strong opinions about.

Have you ever known anyone who was brought up in a very religious household and then left it? I have - several. The word I would use is 'damaged'.

Before anyone starts, I am not saying that religion damages people.

However, these are really big and powerful concepts, esp for DC, I would think. The idea that there is an all-powerful being watching you and judging you, even if presented in a benign way, could potentially be frightening or disturbing. I would want to control when my DC first experienced that if possible, just like I would regulate other things that I thought were age-inappropriate.

I appreciate if you are religious that won't make much sense, but if you're not, and regard religion as a fiction, then it's a very scary, mind-altering fiction to be teaching DC.

PlayEatSleep · 17/03/2012 22:07

It's not "coming across" other people's beliefs, this is practising a religion every single day.
A 2 year-old has so much to learn and bringing the idea of a superior being is pretty major stuff.

Deadsouls · 17/03/2012 22:07

Stangirl - I'm with you, I would be really pissed off about this and would definately bring this up with the nursery.

bejeezus · 17/03/2012 22:12

I have yet to meet an atheist who hasnt made the connection between science and religion.

But then I don't really mix with people who would be so shallow as to base their spirituality, values and principles on what is 'right on' Hmm I think most adults have more integrity than that. I think that might be a little misconception you hold about atheists

solidgoldbrass · 17/03/2012 22:13

'Imaginary friend' is the most accurate term for the stuff that some people persist in believing in. In face-to-face situations I'd be just as kind and civil to an adult who wants to talk to his/her imaginary friend as I would to a toddler.

PlayEatSleep · 17/03/2012 22:17

The only two concepts I don't want my DC exposed to for now (apart from the obvious) are advertising and religion.

PineCones · 17/03/2012 22:20

Advertising! That's the one I'd be far more concerned about.
Forget religion, advertising is the opiate of the masses now.

PineCones · 17/03/2012 22:20

I didnt mean "forget religion" as an injunction to anyone on the thread, I meant it in the other sense!

AgentZigzag · 17/03/2012 22:23

'advertising is the opiate of the masses now'

That and virtual reality, will you not let them be exposed to any computer stuff either PES?

That's far more mind altering than religion.

IsItMeOr · 17/03/2012 22:24

Yes, advertising, preparing them to be good little consumers. Yay.

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 22:24

Have you ever known anyone who was brought up in a very religious household and then left it? I have - several

Yes-many. I equally know people with a deep faith who had atheist parents.
Everyone makes up their own mind.
No one on threads like this have told me why it matters if your DCs has a different belief system. It is private, personal thing and not dictated by your parents-or school or anyone else. If they have all sorts of experiences they have more chance of making up their own mind. They might as well start young.

Sarcalogos · 17/03/2012 22:25

Revolting- I apologise, it was Mrs TP's post I found quite offensive, not yours.

Loopy- please believe that I agree with your post directed at me- I really don't know why you would think that I don't believe that.

I think I've added all I can to the discussion and I seem to be expressing myself badly :-( as things are being misconstrued.

I will reiterate my point of view, then call it a night-

  1. We do live in achristian country and can hardly be surprised when we come across religious practices.
  1. We all have the option to opt out (and opt out on behalf of our DCs).
  1. All people are equally valid and deserving of respect and tolerance.
  1. Religion has been much misused and is consequently now much misunderstood, this is probably the fault of organised religion, which is a shame.

And in answer to the most recent point being brought up-

  1. There are damaged adults who have come away from atheist and religious families alike. The problem comes from human error/human nastiness/human intolerance. these things do not come from God.
OriginalJamie · 17/03/2012 22:27

There is never ever any collective act of worship in my DSs school. Schools don't have to do it.

I wouldn't be happy about children saying grace. Perhaps they could say a big thankyou to the person who cooked the meal. That would be more relevant, and instill good manners

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 22:28

Damage comes from parents who are too dogmatic about anything and think they can dictate what a DC thinks-merely because they gave birth.

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 22:29

If you are in England in a state school I can assure you that the school has collective worship. I would assume from my DS that theirs didn't-unless I knew better-from first hand experience.

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 22:29

It is the law!

RevoltingPeasant · 17/03/2012 22:30

Sarca yes quite - my point was about the power of religious ideas. I don't believe, but I do respect how powerfully they affect people. Which is why as a non-believer I wouldn't tell a 2yo about them, but leave it till their minds are more fully formed.

exotic of course people will have their own beliefs eventually, but equally obviously, parents will want their DC to believe something particular. They don't have a right to enforce that, but they do have a right to guide. Your post sounds like you think all belief systems are equal. I don't agree. I respect other people's right to believe as they wish, but I think atheism is a better way of thinking than Xtianity - I guess Christians think the opposite - that's why we're atheists and Christians! I don't honestly see why it is weird to bring your DC up to believe what you think is right and to guide them until you think they are old enough to decide for themselves.

ANyhow, off now.

PineCones · 17/03/2012 22:30

sarcalogos - I have to agree with mrs. TP though that organised religion is the root of a lot of evil.
And the separation of religion (not necessarily the church but any religion) can only be a good thing.
(organised) religion is exclusionary and divisive at the very least. No matter which religion it is.

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 22:32

However PineCones-your DC might want to be a vicar-and it is up to them-not you!

exoticfruits · 17/03/2012 22:33

Of course they guide- but that is all they can do. Some of you make religion sound terribly exciting-if I was your DC I would want to explore it!!

AgentZigzag · 17/03/2012 22:33

'religion is exclusionary and divisive at the very least'

Where do you place the inclusion and cohesion it can bring as well Pine?