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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask the nursery about grace?

514 replies

Stangirl · 16/03/2012 16:06

My DD (2) attends a nursery 2 days a week - since last October. I am very happy with the nursery and love the way the staff are with the kids. DD seems very happy there.

They just had a Mother's Afternoon where the mums were invited in to attend a music and movement session, facepainting, playing, tea with the kids. I went along and it was lovely apart for one thing - one of the children was asked to say grace before the sandwiches and said a few words thanking god. I was shocked by this as I had believed them to be non-religious - teaching and celebrating all festivals etc but not active worshipping. As an avowed atheist I am quite perturbed.

Would you ask them if this is usual and if they are teaching them grace?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 17/03/2012 19:04

Let's consider for a moment, a world run how we would run it as opposed to how you would run it. My world... complete separation of Church and State. Every person allowed to worship as they wish on their own time. Children taught about religion in school by no ritual associated with any particular religion observed. No one stoned to death for adultery. No one thrown in jail for being raped. No DCs praying in school. Your world... no separation of Church and State. We all have to adhere to whatever State religion our countries' history points to. My children have to pray or exclude themselves. Women all over the world are treated as criminals for driving, having sex, leaving their husbands and on and on. I can see how the harmless nature of your religion leads to to see that there is no need for separation of Church and State. There is.

loopydoo · 17/03/2012 19:12

I agree with you OP and I'd be annoyed if they didn't mention it.

Saying that, I'm an atheist but sent my two to a C of E school until we recently moved.

I hate the whole praying/religious thing in schools and firmly believe that all schools in the UK should be secular; still teach about all religions (what they do/believe etc) but not actually actively worship at all themserlves.

For me, religion should be taught at home in line with that family's beliefs - not at school.

hiddenhome · 17/03/2012 19:23

I'm at work, so I don't intend on continuing to argue, I just want to say that this country will be all the poorer for its rejection of Christianity and I feel sad about that. Even when I didn't believe, I still felt the beauty and saw the universal truths in the faith and didn't mind my dcs being exposed to it in school or when dh took them to church. There is nothing to be afraid of. People are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Read the gospels if you can be bothered and please examine why you're so hostile and angry. Children can make up their own minds. We are lucky in this country that the general population aren't forced to follow a particular religion. Don't mistake exposure for brainwashing. Your children are not at risk.

Back to work now Smile

Sarcalogos · 17/03/2012 19:24

Revolting, I don't subscribe to any of your 3 options and I am bemused as to why you thik those are the only options. The picture you paint at 19.04 is also particularly offensive.

Sarcalogos · 17/03/2012 19:24

Hidden- great post.

loopydoo · 17/03/2012 19:34

sarcalogos - just because someone is atheist, doesn't mean that the morals and good things written in the bible is irrelevant to us.

Just because I don't believe in it all, doesn't mean I don't believe in a moral way of life.

Don't forget, murderers can be Christian and atheists can live in a way that many would call Christian iyswim?

cunexttuesonline · 17/03/2012 19:44

I know, they actually seem to think they invented 'being a nice person'. I wish we had a [yawn] smiley.

bejeezus · 17/03/2012 19:46

zig I'm genuinely confused-why should we expect kids to say grace in schools in UK? Apart from the ones school I've already talked about, our other local schools don't have any more Christian celebrations than any other faith. I see that is because many faiths are represented in the students- but how is it in community schools in non diverse areas? I mean not CofE schools? They wouldn't have chritian assemblies for example would they?

GavisconJunkie · 17/03/2012 19:53

Yes hidden the rejection of thinking is much more preferAble. And aren't we lucky that the warm loving Christians are here to save us savages. Especially those 2 year old's.

madmouse · 17/03/2012 20:08

Thanks hidden that's brilliantly worded

solidgoldbrass · 17/03/2012 20:18

OK, but what about the DC whose parents are Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Sikh, Whateverelse? Should they be expected not to make a fuss about their DC being told to talk to the Christians' imaginary friend instead of their own? And those of you who are buyers of the Christian brand, would you be happy for your DC to be told to pray to Allah/Ganesh/Yahweh/Zeus/Ceridwen?

Or how about your DC (if you are raising them to accept the existence of imaginary beings) being expected to say 'There are no gods' before they are allowed to eat their dinner?

If DC are sent to a school/nursery that is openly allied to one of the major myth brands then at least parents know what to expect. Sneaking one brand in, given that we live in a multicultural country, is Not On.

blighter · 17/03/2012 20:28

ffs, i am not practising in any religion. it is just so 'trendy' to be anti religion. chill out. don't go looking to be offended by something. i think it is harmless & gentle. they do this in brownies too but it is not a christian thing, there are kids there from many religions, i think it is nice and certainly nothing to get your knickers in a twist about

AgentZigzag · 17/03/2012 20:33

There's a program on beeb 2 called 'How God Made the English' exploring 'what it means to be English and chronicling the roots of the idea that the English think themselves better than others'.

Arf Grin

bejeezus · 17/03/2012 20:48

Yes, that's why I'm athiest, because its trendy. Nothing to do with science.

GavisconJunkie · 17/03/2012 20:52

Me too, I'm like soooo on the pulse. It's not like I've made an informed decision & rejected fairytales as a guide by which to live my life.

It's all about the cool.

crashdoll · 17/03/2012 21:00

I'm not a believer in God but I find it so fucking patronising when people call religion 'fairytales' and label God as an imaginary friend. Is there really no respect for other people's beliefs anymore?

bejeezus · 17/03/2012 21:06

It's fairly fucking patronising, for someone to insinuate the root of atheists beliefs is what is trendy

crashdoll · 17/03/2012 21:08

Well, neither did all people who believe in God.

blighter · 17/03/2012 21:22

some people who follow the 'left right on' path think they are hip/trendy to dismiss automatically the belief in god. dh believes it is all science, i have respect for that but some are just following the right on thing and have not made the connection between science and religion, tis' all

RevoltingPeasant · 17/03/2012 21:42

Sarca I didn't post at 19.04, what are you talking about? Confused

And I said the way I see it in response to the different options.

Actually I think one of the best posts here is that by madmouse where she describes how strongly she feels about her faith - that for her, she will teach DC about faiths, but there is only one option, because she passionately believes in her religion.

I totally respect that. And feel exactly the same. Except- about atheism.

I am guessing that someone like madmouse who feels so strongly must be able to see why others do too!

I would be totally happy for any child of mine to learn about other people's beliefs. Not so happy for them to be made to recite prayers that I don't believe in and don't want them to believe in (when they are older of course they can decide, but not at 2!).

IsItMeOr · 17/03/2012 21:42

It feels like people are talking completely different languages on this thread, which have accidentally attributed different meanings to identical words.

As an atheist, I can understand exactly where the atheist posters are coming from, although I may not agree with how they've all expressed it. I don't understand where blighter is coming from though. Yes, there does appear to be a statistical trend that the population is becoming less religious. "Trendy" implies something a bit different though, and rather disparaging.

I do find some of the other posts a bit bewildering. Which is a shame, as it doesn't bode well for a peaceful and tolerant future in the country. I am sorry that it seems one has to be religious to understand some of the points people of faith make in arguments.

On a practical note, personally, I support the BHA and NSS who are actively campaigning against faith schools. Some others on the thread might like to look into that.

IsItMeOr · 17/03/2012 21:44

YY, I agree that I could understand madmouse's post perfectly. Very thoughtfully expressed.

PineCones · 17/03/2012 21:48

Why should it matter though? I am of one religion, was schooled in a school that was of another religion, and have ended up for the most part a practising agnostic. I wouldn't be bothered unless it was getting more heavy duty eg preaching and telling children what to believe in etc. so long as you have own discussions at home and they know your beliefs.
Because children will in any even grow up to have their own beliefs you know Smile

PlayEatSleep · 17/03/2012 21:50

I haven't told my children about God or religions, and I would be fuming if they were exposed to the concept without my knowledge.
They have so much to learn already, and I don't feel this is a priority at this stage. They can learn about it at a later time, when they learn about philosophy and spirituality.

PineCones · 17/03/2012 21:50

"In any event." sorry.
Dang phone.