AIBU to think that WOHM's don't "do the same as SAHMs AND work too!"

[eppa]

Firstly this is not a WOHM bashing thread at all.

Its just that I'm a SAHM and have been offended and hurt by a couple of real life comments basically saying that I shouldn't complain as I'm only a SAHM and that WOHM have to do everything I do AND they manage to work as well.

I disagree with this because for me an average day includes: making and clearing up after three meals, going out to baby groups, park, docs appts, trying to think up and doing activities such as cooking and painting and reading AND trying to keep on top of the mess that having 2 children in the house all day entails.

However a WOHM would get DC up and dressed, drop them at nursery where they would get their 3 meals, do activities etc, pick them up and return to a house that was clean (or the same state as it was left in!).

Obviously both WOHMs and SAHMs work and they both work hard and WOHMs do parent when they are at home. Its just that I don't think its fair to claim that WOHMs somehow do more than SAHMS.

gosh more generalising that does noone any favours Jin

Merry- I think I may start to stalk you, just warning ok

I honestly have tried to rouse myself to give the tiniest of fucks about this subject,but I failed.

eppa, thinking about it I dont think you can compare having worked before kids and after kids. Life in general is very easy without kids. Even when burning the midnight oil until 11pm at work, after getting there for 9, it was relatively easy, because you did not have the mental constraints and anguish that combining motherhood and work often create.

There is nothing stopping you putting a load of laundry on if your child is clingy, or ill. Neither should there be anything stopping you hanging it out, etc. Like with any job, it takes management and organization. More often than being ill a child will either have a nap, or watch some tv, or engage in play on their own, giving mum a chance to either rest or do chores.
A sahm will have to work out a way of multitasking and making laundry a part of the entertainment routine of a baby / toddler. Just as somebody in an office will need to multi task.

I think the biggest difference is:

1. If you work and have no kids you focus on your work and can more easily compartmentalize work and private life.
2. If you are a sahm you have no work to focus on and can easily get down to running house and looking after kids.
3. If you are a working mum, you need to keep your focus on both home-life and work life, and that is stressful because you cant drop the ball on either.

I think it bears witness of a certain level of ignorance to suggest that a parent who stays the day at home and multi task childcare and running the house, has as much to do as a parent who is working out of the home and have to focus her mind solely on work matters for 1/3 of the day and deal with running the house when she gets home. No, they dont look after a child, but there is more to being a parent than just looking after the child and entertaining it.

Anyone who thinks they can say being a sahm is easier or being a wohm is easier is deeply stupid.
IMHO of course.

But let's keep doing this shall we. Nothing more entertaining than people looking at their own lives and thinking it allows them to make broad judgements which inevitably makes their choice just a bit more virtuous than someone else's. We are marvellous aren't we.

Indeed we are!

quintessentiallyhollow
Firstly I wasn't saying that you can compare working before kids and after kids. You asked me if I had ever worked and I replied that I had.
I think that either you have had very easy going children or have not had the experience of trying to get much housework done on your own with 2 small kids. What would stop me from putting a load of laundry on is one DS who wants to be carried and would be tugging at my legs and who would scream blue murder if I didn't pick him up. At the same time I would also have my DD who is the elder child trying to "help" by pulling the washing back out of the machine! Thats why often I would do tasks like that in the evening. Yes I could leave them to cry but thats not how I choose to parent and I could sit them in front of the TV but I don't like them to watch too much so time is limited.
I actually find it a bit naive that some people are saying how easy it is to be a SAHM when they obviously haven't done it as they are WOHMs (or have only done it until the DC is 6 months/a year). And my children don't nap my either. DD gave up her nap at 2yrs and DS only has one short nap a day.

ah, so just because your kids are clingy, and that you find it difficult to juggle all this, it equals that in general being a sahm is harder than being a whom.

It is all individual. YOU have not been a whom. Therefore you think it is easier than being a whom. Because your kids are clingy and you cant figure out how to manage them and do your chores.

I have not been a sahm. Other than trying to work from home with my kids also at home. I do think I know how demanding kids and babies, and both at the same time can be.

I think you are suggesting that just because wohms dont have the relentless tugging and crying, they have it easier. But I am not sure it is easier to know that your kids are relentlessly tugging and crying at somebody who is paid to look after them and dont love them.

"Therefore you think it is easier than being a whom" should read "Therefore you think it is easier to be a whom".

Well I've been a SAHM, a WOHM and now I work from home.

I can safely say that WOH was the hardest. By a country mile.

When I stayed at home there were times when it was great fun and times when it was deathly dull. There were times whne i was relaxed, and times when I was kanckered.

But I don't recall any of it being hard. It was always doable. Yes, there was a lot to do and often I didn't want to do it, but ultimately it was doable.

Whereas working outside the home was hard. Just getting to work, on time, looking how my clients expected me to look was hard. The work itself was hard. To be fiar it always had been prior to DC (somehting I enjoyed), but then I'd always had the option to stay extra hours if need be.
And the juggling was super hard. My DC still had doctor's appointments, illness etc. How do people make this fit? I take my hat off to them. I recently had a meeting to attend and couldn't due to a child's illness. It wasn't the end of the world, but how would I have managed in my old job where clients and judges and experts and interpreters would have all been waiting for me to turn up!

I suppose much of this is to do with what one actually does for a living. Some careers will be far more challenging than others. My current career as a writer is, frankly, a doddle, my previous career - not so much.
Also, how available your partner is to help will impact, as will proximity to supportive family.

I can't be arsed to read the whole thread. But that's a gross generalisation. I work 35 hours a week, and am pretty much a SAHM from when DS wakes up until he goes to bed through the week, and some of the weekend (work late shifts into the night) And then up whenever DS is in the morning ready to do my 'mummy' shift before work again...
So, I don't feel that I do any more (or less) than anyone else. To assume my day is harder/easier than someone else's would be presumptuous although I do feel I have it tough as I do 95% of childcare/housework when I am in, whether or not DP is in!
First post on a SAHM v WOHM thread... And I'm spent.

Oh my goodness, I've just seen that the OP has never been a WOHM!!!

I'm struggling therefore to see how she is in any position to judge.

But its not just me - I know alot of people who find it hard, I don't think its something to be ashamed of and it doesn't mean you don't love your children. And I can figure out how to manage them and do chores - its simply to look after the children in the day and do chores in the evening or when possible in the day (they are not clingy all the time!).
As you have not been a SAHM you don't really know what the experience is like.
I also appreciate it is hard to think of your children with someone else but that is the choice a WoHM takes.

Eppa - I think it was pretty much understood that the question was in relation to have you ever been a WOHM mum. There are very few women who have never worked now.

In response to your last post, I'm a working mum. I have two toddlers (1.1 and 2.5). They have on and off days but I don't think it's the 'norm' (if you can give a norm) to find it impossible to put on a load of laundry with them around. This is the point people are trying to make, it really depends on each person's circumstances.

I also think the amount of mess created tends to reach a limit - i.e. if you do one big tidy up a day it takes less time than tidying up every hour or so. I'm not convinced that there's a lot more tidying to do if you have a toddler at home all day compared to for only five hours (not asleep) as with my two. No doubt that there's more hoovering etc required if kids are at home all day thought.

I (personal experience alert) find it easier working because I find it incredibly draining looking after young children all day. If I'm out and about it's fine but if not I find it hard because (shoot me) I find it dull. Moments of brilliance of course but majority dull.

No one is saying that SAHMs do nothing all day (or not that I've read). What the vast majority of people are saying is you just can't generalise. Honestly, I wouldn't count going to a toddler group as hard work - you can pretty much sit back and watch can't you? However, there are other bits of the job that are exceedingly hard work, particularly the inability to get even five mins on your own. I don't think even MN has developed an accurate score card yet.

'WOHM' not 'working mum' before I get slated for suggesting that SAHMs don't work :)

bedubabe
I don't really sit back and watch at toddler group as I try to play and do crafts too. And just as you might not see going to a toddler group as hard work I wouldn't see for example, having a working lunch with nice sandwiches and coffee made for you as hard work either.

eppa it sounds to me not that you are finsing it hard, but that you are not finding it enjoyable.

That is absolutely undertsndable and yes, you rae not alone.

Eppa, I would think that being a sahm who also have to work from her home is harder than "only" being a sahm.

But you are yourself not in a position to judge. Just because you find it hard, does not mean that others have it any easier!

Yes, it is a hard to think that others are looking after our kids, and that is our choice. Likewise it is your choice to be a sahm.

There are no rights or wrongs. If you are not enjoying being a sahm, dont let some misplaced guilt persuade you that you must stay home and look after your kids yourself. Maybe a nursery would be better for them, than a stressed mum, who knows?

Eppa - surely that depends on what you're doing during the working lunch. I wouldn't find it (at all) hard having a working lunch with a few sandwiches and coffee made for me whilst someone drones on about something (dreams of this ever happening in the current environment) and I can switch off. I would find it difficult to have the same lunch whilst being grilled by a client about intricate details of the job I've done. I'd prefer to be sat in a toddler group any day.

I can't think of a time I've found going to a toddler group hard work. We obviously parent differently. I like to sit back and let my children play without my assistance if possible but I know others would criticise that as not interacting enough. Obviously doesn't work if they have a paintbrush in their hands :) Again, as I said, you can't generalise. It all depends on personal circumstances.

I've never been a long-term stay at home mum, I've only done it during periods of maternity leave less than six months. However, I think at least I have an idea from, for example, maternity leave with a newborn and one year-old (I think sleep deprivation makes up for having a non-walker) and odd days when I'm on my own with them. You are commenting on something you have never done and have no idea of.

I'm lucky that I'm a WOHM out of choice not (strict) financial necessity. I would find being a SAHM hard and, as I said, the emotional draining-ness of it would be harder. That's not because of the number of tasks to do as highlighed in your post. That's because of the nature of the job.

But to answer your original post: for the majority of WOHMs you cannot say they do 'everything a SAHM does and more' because the majority's working hours will in someway overlap with hours where the child is awake and being cared for by someone else.

Some WOHMs do do everything and more (shifts, WAHMs etc)

I have only read the OP and am fuming!!! I go out to work 5 evenings a week after DH comes home from his work. OP, I do every single thing on your list (except bedtime as I'm at work). I work fucking hard from 7am when DD wakes, until about 11.15 pm when I get home. DD still wakes in the night sometimes (she's 1) and is still bothered by reflux sometimes. It's not ideal, but at least we don't have child are costs. Effectively, I'm a full time SAHM, with a part time job. Care to try it? We have to do this at the moment just to make ends meet, so you can fuck right off with your judgy shit

Eppa going by your second last comment, as I have been both a sahm and a WOHM I am qualified to comment.

WOHM is much much harder.

I love my life, but take yesterday for a typical day...out of house at eight, in work till ten to six, no time to take a lunch break, mentally demanding tasks all day, stuck in traffic on way home, run in and tag team DH on trh way out, straight to after school club agm with kids, home to finish making the dinner DH started, homework , chats, send them for baths, back down to check everything for this morning, tidy kitchen, tidy living room, turn lap top back on to prepare session for this morning, bed at 11 because I need to be up at six this morning to be on a train at seven fifteen and start all over again.

Arts and crafts??? I got to knit a couple of rows of my squares for the MN blankets at some point on the evening!

I CHOOSE to do this so I am not looking for a medal, but when I was a sahm, it was nothing compared to my life now. I like to be super busy though!

I love those threads which start

" This is not a SAHM/ WOHM bashing thread..."

Really no one is ever going to pat you on the back for doing either, so you might as well get on with it.