AIBU to think that WOHM's don't "do the same as SAHMs AND work too!"

[eppa]

Firstly this is not a WOHM bashing thread at all.

Its just that I'm a SAHM and have been offended and hurt by a couple of real life comments basically saying that I shouldn't complain as I'm only a SAHM and that WOHM have to do everything I do AND they manage to work as well.

I disagree with this because for me an average day includes: making and clearing up after three meals, going out to baby groups, park, docs appts, trying to think up and doing activities such as cooking and painting and reading AND trying to keep on top of the mess that having 2 children in the house all day entails.

However a WOHM would get DC up and dressed, drop them at nursery where they would get their 3 meals, do activities etc, pick them up and return to a house that was clean (or the same state as it was left in!).

Obviously both WOHMs and SAHMs work and they both work hard and WOHMs do parent when they are at home. Its just that I don't think its fair to claim that WOHMs somehow do more than SAHMS.

I spent 2.5 years at home on maternity leave (so SAHM for that time ) 2 babies very close together. Went back to work 3 full days a week (2 hour commute a day). Have to say that being a SAHM was a doddle compared to fitting in work, cleaning, shopping, cooking, docs appointments, swimming lessons, etc around my available hours on my two non work days.

Ohhhhhh.....

Op, have you EVER worked?

I have never been a sahm. Working for myself I was back working again when ds1 was 2 weeks old. He was with me. Had to get a nanny in for some time when he was 3 months old as I had a project deadline. Then fitted work in around baby care, cleaning and all the other things, until he was 1 then he started full time nursery.

The reality is getting up really early, get baby ready, feed breakfast, get dressed for work and leave the house, drop off at nursery. Work. Bring child home, and find the house in the same state as it was left:

Nobody has put the laundry on
Nobody has cleaned up after breakfast
Nobody has done any ironing or any tidying

You arranged doctors appointments and other stuff in your lunchbreak alongside eating.

And when you are home, with a grizzly and tired baby, you juggle cooking tea, cleaning up the breakfast dishes, tidy, putting the laundry on, cleaning up after the meal, trying to spend some quality time with baby, then milk, then bed time. Then housework. How on EARTH is this not doing more than a sahm?

You imagine starting to do all the cleaning and the housework and the tidying, and the laundry after 8 pm. When do you think you go to sleep?

The hardest thing about being a WOHM, I think, is that when I do get to spend time with my dc I'm trying to get the housework done as well, so I'm constantly saying to them, "Yes, i will come and read to you, but let me do this washing up first...". And at weekends, dp and I take turns to have the dc while the other gets on with Jobs, so we get very little time as a family.

And I don't even clean my skirting boards. But my kids certainly don't get the best of me

On the other hand, I get the sheer unadulterated bliss of train journeys with a cup of coffee in my hand and the Guardian on my kindle. And I get to use the office toilet All By Myself, without a helpful toddler trying to wipe my nethers for me. I DO find being at home with small children rather stressful and enervating, and exhausting in a different way from the sheer bloody unrelenting cramming-in-household-tasks-till-midnight experience of my current set-up.

Yes but I am SAHM and have just finished cleaning tasks for the day so just gone midnight! This is because I had group this morning, did some housework, then walked to school ( 40mins), picked up DC1, went to park after school, walked home (50 mins), in at 5, prepared and cooked dinner. Bathed children at 6. Put baby to bed. Did reading, games and talking with DC 1. I then started housework, cooking for DP about 8.45. Did evening washing up tidied toys, kitchen surfaces.

I did work in a very demanding job 4.5 years ago but no way was it as hard as SAHM even with 1.5 hr commute.

When DS was 3 he went to nursery every afternoon, I was doing some work at home and it was easy knowing my DS was sorted with child care! That's the significant point - my DS was being cared for and stimulated. As a SAHM my life also involves providing stimulation aswell. IMO if you are only providing basic care- feeding, nappy change and cleaning their environment you're are doing something wrong!

It probably depends on if what you do is your free choice or what your situation compels you to do. I loved being on maternity and found it to be very easy. Being back at work is a lot harder and fitting in all the housework, shopping etc is difficult. We can't afford a cleaner, ironing lady and such as we really haven't much spare money and couldn't survive at all without my salary. Which is really what it comes down to. I would love to be a SAHM but can't afford to. Perhaps a SAHM who would love to work but can't would be equally frustrated with their lot.

I would imagine that, for instance a SAHM whose partner works away from home, with twins and no cleaner, and perhaps some chickens (maybe a goat too?) will work harder than a WOHM with one child, a cleaner a cook and a very helpful husband, particularly if the WOHM has an undemanding job (maybe she is a librarian in a town where people don't like reading).

Conversely, If the SAHM has one easy going 13 year old child at boarding school and a cleaner and both she and her husband are independently wealthy and spend all their time at the local health club and the WOHM is actually Prime Minister, well then I think the WOHM would be more busy.

I do the childcare. A working mum pays someone to do the childcare. That's the only difference.

I am not a housewife, cleaner, or anything else. I work hard, I'm not supermOm, I do what any other mum does after hours.

But during working hours, I'm working.

If you think I'm not, then you'll also think a nanny, childminder, nursery nurse are all a bunch of idle cunts.

I don't feel the need to say I do more peripheral stuff than a mother who has a paid job, but I also don't sit on my arse watching JK either.

The person a working mum employs to look after her children whilst she works should be respected. The person who does that for her own children should also be respected.

I don't get the confusion.

As a PT WOHM I agree with the OP, at least in respect of SAHM's of pre-schoolers.

When I am at my paid work, I am not doing what I do on the days when I am not at work (i.e. directly caring for/ playing with/feeding my child.) I'm comfortable with that situation, but it's ridiculous for me to claim that I am somehow omnipresent and personally doing what I have obviously subcontracted.

I have been both a sahm and a wohm, and for a while done both at the same time (night shifts and all childcare during the day)

Now I am neither. I don't work and I don't do any childcare or housework, DH does everything (and we have a big family!)

I am however stuck in bed all day, can't walk, can't dress myself and am in constant severe pain and doped up on morphine

So ya know, swings and roundabouts

I have been both and for me staying home with a child who didnt sleep was a lot easier than going back to work with a child who didn't sleep. I could plan my day how i wanted to, have play dates with friends and always had a clean house and nutritious dinners on the table.

When I went to work, the expectation was that I was focused on a very demanding job. Plus I had the frustration of knowing half my salary went to someone getting to do the fun things with my dd, and then coming home to do all the housework, cooking, organizing, bath, story and bed, plus try to fit in some quality time before collapsing in bed and doing it again the next day.

I really don't see how you can think that SAHMs do more - try and add a 35 hour work week to your week ( and commute time) and still get everything done and see if you still feel hard done by. I know childcare is hard, but if your children are preschoolers, presumably they do nap, and you get a it of time to yourself.

I hope you find a way to make this work as you do seem resentful of everything you do. Maybe you should get a p/t job, and see if you feel better. Not everyone is cut out to stay home with their children. Good luck.

If you think I'm not, then you'll also think a nanny, childminder, nursery nurse are all a bunch of idle cunts.

See, I look after other people's children sometimes. If I'm honest, I find it really hard work because they are not my children. I do it because I want to help out friends when they are in need, not for the love of it. No way is that the same as looking after my own dd. I don't find it a chore to be with her at all.

Being a childminder, nanny or nursery worker means applying for, getting and retaining a job. As a cm you need to regularly drum up your own business. You then need to meet targets set by an external body, as well as ensuring that records are carefully kept and your clients are Satisfied with your service

You don't have to do any of the above with your own children. You can be the best, most involved Parent in the world. Or you can live in chaos, sit your children in front of the telly for hours and feed them fruitshoots. Provided you're not abusing or neglecting them, you can do whatever you like

People who make this comparison between SAHP and people who work in regulated childcare are just being really thick.

It is nothing like the same doing it in a professional capacity to doing it with your own children. It shouldnt be either I dont think your on your own schedule when your with your own and its totally different. Like today we are going to a group, then some shopping then back home whereas I cant just go shopping when I have children in a professional capacity.

I do much less cleaning when I am home to than when I am at work because it just doesnt get as messy. Also there is no writing and picture taking and observations every 2 minutes.You havent got 20 Learning Journeys to be completed with children climbing on you trying to chop it all up Everyone should be respected but in no way is it the same, no matter how much you do at home.

I don't think it's the same, but I think there is a valid point to be made that SAHM's do do something all day- some are hugely invested in the role, some less so, but at a minimum, if they have pre-schoolers they are basically supervising their children constantly, which they are not doing if they are not physically present so to say, as per the OP " WOHM have to do everything SAHM do AND they manage to work as well" is simply not factually correct. WOHM do not have to supervise their children for the 8hrs they are at work.

I work part time (3 days) and I am as busy on my SAHM days as my WOHM days- just in a different way (and actually, usually more knackered by the end of the SAHM days tbh). I dont claim that I do what a childminder/nursery would do, but I am pretty child-centric (i.e. i focus on DS and dont just drag him around after me while I do admin or whatever).

I also dont think you can generalise. Some SAHM's have children who need very intensive input (toddlers who you cannot take your eye off for a second etc). Others have pretty self-sufficient kids. At the same time, some WOHM's are flat out all day, others have pretty doss jobs and get a lot of personal admin done during the working day.

YABU and I think you are bashing WOHM.

I work part time and sorry, I think of the days I don't go into work as fun/days off. But then, I love my children and do not consider looking after them to be work or a job. It is a pleasure and delight to have time to piddle around the house while enjoying their company.

If you find being a SAHM mum such a chore, get a job!

I should add, I have nothing against SAHMs, I have been one. It is whiney mums that annoy me!

If you think I'm not, then you'll also think a nanny, childminder, nursery nurse are all a bunch of idle cunts.
I think the point being made is that the activity of looking after children should be valued, whether that is done by a parent, grandmother, nanny or childminder.

Is a forklift truck driver more hard working than a SAHP? Who would win in a fight, a blancmange or an ice-cream? You can compare a random SAHP with a random person who takes home a salary, but you can't therefore make a meaningful generalisation about one activity being harder than the other.

Frankly, when I worked a 40 hour week + all the extra unpaid hours you work if you have a professional job, I was not actually also looking after my son. My mother, husband and the nursery were. I would not have been able to do my job if I was simultaneously cooking my son lunch and finger painting and showing him how the world works and teaching him the art of conversation.

However, looking at this thread, it seems that there are many women who claim to do both, simultaneously and I salute you. It must be really hard.

WOHM do not have to supervise their children for the 8hrs they are at work.

Yes, this is obviously true, though for some WOHMs, the difference is minimal as they arrange much of their work around the hours when their kids are asleep - and although someone has to be there during that time, they don't have to do a lot else.

I don't really think anyone is saying that SAHMs do nothing all day - anyone who spends any time with their children at all will know that this isn't true. But the OP's point was that WOHMs don't do any more than SAHMs, and in my experience, (all other things being equal) , this isn't true either.

I think SAH is a perfectly valid life choice, and a SAHP obviously makes valuable and significant contributions to family life. If that's what a woman wants to do, and her DH is happy to support that choice, I think it's great. But I think it's sad when SAHMs feel they have to defend their choices by trying to make SAHMing into a "job". It isn't a job, but that doesn't make them any less worthy as a person. Why not celebrate instead the fact that they are not running around like a blue-arsed fly all the time? There is no inherent virtue in manic busy-ness. Why not celebrate the fact that having one parent at home often means less work & less stress for all the family?

I seem to do the same amount of housework but miss out on the play days and fun

I don't think you can really say for certain, I know I probably do more than some wohm and more than some sahm, because it all depends on what you fill your day with.

If I was put on the spot I would say that it is always going to be easier to do a job if you want to do and are motivated, so if you want to be a sahm then chances are I work harder than you, because I have to work, would live to be at home, so mentally it is harder for me to motivate myself to work.

Either way, I don't give a shit, ask yourself if you are happy, if you are then that is fantastic, keep it that way, why look for issues that don't exist? I dot care if you spend all day cleaning toilets, buttering up politicians or cleaning mucky toddlers, it doesn't have any impact in my life.

Be happy

Don't worry about what other people are saying.

Quintessentially Hollow in answer to your question yes I worked for 11 years before having children. I worked in office roles in large companies and in my experience there was always some time during the day to get things done such as online shop/admin etc. You also talk about doing all the housework and laundry after 8pm but a SAHM will often have to do that too! If the DCs are being a bit clingy or ill etc I won't be able to get much housework done so will have to do it all after they go to bed.
Jinsei I don't agree that being a SAHM isn't a job. It is a job and a valuable one too (just unfortuantely unpaid). I treat it as a job and put as much effort into it as I would into any professional role. Also re your previous post I do accept that there are lots of permeatations (sp!) of being a WOHM but you can't deny that there are alot of children who will be in day nursery/childminders all day and will get all their meals and entertainment there and in my personal experience I do know alot of WOHM whose children do this.

I bet gardeners have exactly the same kind of discussion on gardening forums

"I am completely self sufficient and grow all my own vegetables and have built my own water filtering system. My friend who works at Kew Gardens says I am a good for nothing lazer and he works much harder than me. I tell him that is a pile of manure - which of us is right?"

Ohh yes mister self sufficient gardening person - your mate at Kew Gardens has to work a 35 hour week and then come home and still water his tubs!

I loved being at home with pre-scoolers. I did find those days more relaxing. However now they are at school, I find my at home days totally exhausting and am completely knackered by 9pm (I also and have always worked 2or 3 days out of the home). With toddlers you can leave the house anytime from 9-11choose what you do. Now even on my days off I am out by 815 having made breakfast, cleared away packed lunches checked book bags. I then pick up 2 other children (pay back for the days I am working) frequently have to to go in to sort out random bits of admin/search for lost items/see the teachers. I have to meal plan,shop and usually do some food prep. Sort wash and hang out 2 loads of laundry and be back at the school gates for 315 with a snack. 3/5 nights they need ferrying to after school activities. On the other night we sometimes have a freind back or go to the park. We get home 5ish, prepare their tea,serve it clear away. Then homework/reading, bath story for youngest, quality time for bigger one and into bed @830. Then downstairs to cook adult dinner. Far harder than either a day at work or looking after pre-schoolers IMo

Oh no, I bet your mate at Kew Gardens just plays croquet all day and you have to water your tubs in the evening too!

I also have a cleaner btw

I am a lp have been since I had 2 under 2s. I have always worked in demanding jobs. I was a social worker, then became a teacher and now work with kids with ASD.
My kids are now 8 and 10, so getting easier,but I am always busy,but you know what I love it.
I have a job I love, work aroud the kids( i can work flexibly)feel im making a difference and getting paid.My kids are great, we have enough money to live on and I am really proud of my little family.
Basically it is what you make it,some may see my life as hard, I think 2 things are important here,one its not as hard as it used to be! and secondly I have choosen to be here doing what I'm doing and I know personally thats the key to a lot of unhappiness is when you haven't choosen but just had things foisted on you.