to be confused? Transgender pregnancy.

[troisgarcons]

In the papers today.

In short, a woman commences the transgender process into a man. She becomes/lives as a gay man. But keeps her womb and overies. Stops taking her medication, gets pregnant (deliberately) by her gay male lover.

I'm a bit lost here. Clearly she isn't a man? And I have to ask where the gay male boyfriend thought the was popping his sausage?

Clothes-why would the child not perceive the MTF as female? If it is child protection issue, you want to make it as uncomplicated as possible, there would be someone else available, however the parents can be over riden.

Sorry haven't read thread. But I agree OP don't understand how somebody could WANT to become a man and then want to carry a child and become a mother? I don't consider myself homophobic and (I know its cliche) my best friend is a gay man and I attend Gay Pride every year but I just don't get this.

That is the same as the North West and most new builds, all uni-sex, as the french system is.

I don't quite understand the fixation with other people's genitals. There's some nasty stereotypes about trans people being aired here.

People have mentioned the high suicide rate among trans people, there is also a very high murder rate, especially as a significant number of them end up in prostitution so they can afford to pay for reassignment surgery.

Live and let live people. Transphobia kills.

Lula-perhaps they consider the sacrifice worth it, to reproduce and they consider themselves becoming a parent (not mother), in the long run.

Because the person might look male to them, as many MTF transgender individuals still look male.

Goth-i brought that up, to stop the giggly posts from going any further, early on.

Birds, I'm not polarising! I should have said a person with a working penis. Clearly, if they were sent to a women's prison they would have self-assigned as female.

Much better when we can allow for all the stuff in between ... Nothing in nature is polar (unless we're diverting into magnetism?), it's all chimeras and sliding scales.

Clothes- as said the least complicated route would be taken, transgendered people are usually very reasonable in certain employments, they know that there will be difficulties, in some job roles and are happy to facilitate, if needed, in roles such as child protection, the army, police etc.

Just seen your post above, Clothes, about the school loos. Yeah - the first time I saw unisex loos at an office building, my first thought was "Why doesn't everyone do that?!"

Stops the secret men's room deals, too

Garlic- as i see it, a sexual assault can happen from either gender. The only danger is if their is a person much stronger than you, but lets face it, all inmates should be protected from sexual assault. I don't think it matters whether the person has a penis or not.

Birdsgottafly- yeah I see what you mean. At the end of the day, I think we really don't think of how we actually got here (nobody likes to think of their parents having sex!) so long as the parents aren't negligent or abusive, who cares?

Birds, is that a reasonable basis for law, that a particular group of people will behave reasonably, and so no law is required that takes into account the wishes of the person being examined?

I don't think it would be considered a decent basis if the situation was reversed. If the child was transgender, we would expect that laws would make sure their wishes concerning the gender identity of people present in an examination was taken into account and not over-ridden. The presumed reasonableness of people in positions of authority would not be seen as a reason to have no protection in law.

I take your point, Birds (01:26), but I imagine if I were in a vulnerable position I'd rather be threatened with sexual assault by a woman than by a person with more testosterone than me and an erection. I never have been sexually assaulted by a woman, though, so I may be projecting

Gotta go to bed now, anyway.

I don't think general shared toilets are the way forward at all! And tbh I think it is naive to think everyone would be fine with this. I want female public toilets and female NHS wards.

Of course transgendered people are unfortunately at higher risk of attack in prisons and need to be protected appropriately.

And people focus on genitals because ultimately this is the issue that affects them. Most people don't care if for example someone born male identifies as female and wears female clothing. But when it somes to genitals nad public toilets, showers, etc, this does affect others. That is why there is a focus on that.

Lesly- the point is that most schools have shared toilets and when those children grow up, that is what they will be used to,solessof an issue,when time moves on.

There will always be segregated wards, if needed side rooms will be used.

Clothes-there is protection, in law, but most people working, giving intimate care, will always act in the interests of the patient, so will be flexible, especially in child protection. Other workers would be available, as always is. Children who need examining go to suites, in hospitals,so there isn't a shortage of staff. That would come into exempted categories.

BGF, there is no such exemption in law with regard to examinations in the presence of police officers. If there is for NHS staff, I think it is strange that different laws apply to them than apply to the police.

birds - I am 47. Are you proposing then I should have to accept shared toiletssay in 10 years time?

I think the shared facilities might be a bit of a red herring. I think most transfer people would like to use the facility that matched their gender and I think that generally, people would not notice them doing so.

*trans

Years ago, there was a trans women at my college and they wouldn't let her use the women's toilets. I still feel very sad about that as well as the general abuse she received.

I understand that. But when people are post operative, there is no issue imo. But I do not want to share shower facilities or nhs wards with transgenderred M to F who still have a penis.

And abuse is never okay

Late to this, and to return to an earlier point, but I had a good friend at university who went Female to Male. She was told (and this is 15 years ago) that she needed to choose either a penis to pee from or a penis for sex because the two were not compatible.

I don't feel uncomfortable about sharing with a mtf person who has retained a penis, but I'm not sure I can articulate why. I think perhaps because it no longer has a sexual overture, so is more like sharing shower facilities with prepubescent children? I'm not sure.