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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To wonder why MN has turned into such a bitch fest recently.

516 replies

Lucy88 · 07/03/2012 23:12

I have been coming on MN on and off for about 2 years and have always found it to be very useful for reading others advice and asking others for advice, reading reviews and getting holiday advice. There will always be times when people will disagree or not like other peoples advice, but I have been truly shocked recently at some of the posts I have read.

I am quite an outspoken person (in real life), but do try to adhere to the mantra of 'Don't put anything online that you would not be prepared to say to anyones face' but OMG even I have been surprised at the amount of bitchy, nasty responses some people have received on here recently.

I know that it is difficult when communicating just through the written word, as there is no body language or intonation to always give the correct message, but some posters really do think it is ok to be really nasty and make personal comments. Name calling seems to be the 'in thing' at the moment and I have to admit, that I just don't get it - not from grown women.

The majority of people who make these types of comments, probably wouldn't dare to say these things to people's faces, but think it is perfectly ok to do it online.

Can we at least have a week where we think about what we post and if we can't post anything constructive and polite, then perhaps don't post at all.

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/03/2012 11:40

that's not old! I am just having a "milestone birthday" crisis Grin

Sargesaweyes · 10/03/2012 11:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

youarekidding · 10/03/2012 11:43

MN is very wierd ATM. I have no objections to being called a twat if indeed I am being one possibly without realising it! and AIBU is a great place for that.

However when someone posts an obviously humouress post or asks for advice (posts such as I really don't know where else to turn) I think it is definatly time for reply nicely or hide thread. Someone who is clearly upset does not need to be told they're a twat.

diotima · 10/03/2012 11:44

How do you tackle the 'I'm only being abusive because I've been abused' line? It seems to be used as a license for the most appalling behaviour.

Sargesaweyes · 10/03/2012 11:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2shoes · 10/03/2012 12:03

I don't think it is a new think, and it can be in the most unexpected places, sn topic for instance. that can be rather nasty,
I do think mn hq should be more pro active, seeing Fanjoes post way down the thread, the poster who posted what Fanjo quoted should have been banned.

herecomesthecavalry · 10/03/2012 12:36

Every time someone reports something and its not upheld, MN give a reason. It gives people good at getting round the rules a tactic to use in order to attack others and get their point across.

How do you deal with people who say 'I'm only being abusive because I've been abused'? You try and actually get to the bottom of that frustration and why they feel like nothing is being done to address issues. If you don't the situation continues.

You need to abuse people in a certain way for it to be acted upon on MN. It means certain people although the same intent is very clearly there, they aren't breaking the letter of the law. It causes resentment and a feeling of untouchability.

Off the radar stuff, is just as bad as it makes people less likely to get involved in debate. It closes people down. Loads of people have complained about it, and it does need to be looked at more seriously. If there is no action in response the problem just festers.

We need a proper debate on why people feel unable to speak on certain subjects or even use certain sections. Why people aren't reporting when perhaps they should be? Is it because its not a single post but a repeated belittling? And then theres the individuals who do a great job of playing the system to look the victim, fully knowing how to manipulate responses.

What ends up happening is just great and greater polarisation rather than a bridging of a divide. The problem gets worse and worse. No ones happy on any side either tbh. You need to do something about trying to get people to understand how off the radar stuff affects others as much as direct stuff.

The trouble with forums is they go through life-cycles and people think that they can be run the same way as they were from day one. I don't think thats the case as they mature and reach a certain point. They need to be looked at again and things reassessed. Or the problem becomes institutionalised and people know all the ways to get around the rules. At some point you need a managed solution or things just get even worse. All thats happening right now, is there is a big bitch-fest, someone flounces, a winner is declared and it starts all over again, with someone else. All over the same issues.

The fact that this is just one more thread like this, in a long line of them without any changes or seemingly constructive steps to look at the problem speaks volumes. I'm sure the same names must come up time after time too.

I'm just the latest in a very long line of people to raise the same issues.

A lot of it is born of frustration and a general lack of respect for other posters. A campaign to try and promote respect for other views is just one thing that could be done.

I just feel that it falls on deaf ears though or is interpreted in wanting to end robust debate. You can argue robustly without resorting to underhand tactics, especially since those most able at them are generally the most intellectually gifted in the first place anyway. They only use the tactics as they know they have a weak argument in the first place. Pull them up on it, and I think it will stop. Its not unintelligent people who are most guilty here.

Contempt breeds contempt.

flashsale · 10/03/2012 12:45

"a general lack of respect for other posters. A campaign to try and promote respect for other views is just one thing that could be done.

I just feel that it falls on deaf ears though or is interpreted in wanting to end robust debate. You can argue robustly without resorting to underhand tactics, especially since those most able at them are generally the most intellectually gifted in the first place anyway. They only use the tactics as they know they have a weak argument in the first place. Pull them up on it, and I think it will stop. Its not unintelligent people who are most guilty here.

Contempt breeds contempt."

Yes.

MissAnnersley · 10/03/2012 13:19

Contempt breeds contempt

That's very true, although I hadn't felt it at all until this week.

It's been a bit of an eye opener!

HillyWallaby · 10/03/2012 13:37

Can someone please tell me who SWMNBN is, and why she had her own forum? Ta.

BIWI · 10/03/2012 13:39

This reply has been deleted

She Who Must Not Be Namedaka Gina Ford. Massive falling out with MN because she was slagged off here. If you Google it you should come across more!

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/03/2012 13:43

Shock BIWI you will be struck by lightning now!

HillyWallaby · 10/03/2012 13:47

Oh yes, thanks BIWI - I know about that (strapping to rockets etc) and I have heard the full moniker, just not seen the acronym before! Didn't put two and two together.

BIWI · 10/03/2012 14:02
Boomerwang · 10/03/2012 14:17

2shoes the poster of what fanjo quoted (aka me) had a differing opinion and yes it was a very unpopular opinion (which I am currently rethinking after reading some very informative threads here) but if you banned everybody who had unpopular ideas there wouldn't be much point in debate. As long as there are no individual attacks or obvious trolling behaviour, everybody gets to say what they think and more often than not the readers leave the thread with a broadened mind. Rarely, but it does happen, some people even change their minds after learning something new.

2shoes · 10/03/2012 14:28

the stuff quoted was beyond vile it was hate,
disablist a should be stamped out

Boomerwang · 10/03/2012 14:33

Well that's a debate for another time. I also made many comments about how disabled people do not have to answer to anyone for their circumstances, but you haven't read the thread, have you?

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/03/2012 14:33

2shoes, she did apologise and admit she may have been wrong :)

lesley33 · 10/03/2012 14:36

Sorry haven't read the thread. But there is a difference between unpopular opinions and being abusive. Early on here I read a poster who was blind and worked full time being flamed for saying that all the blind people she knew that didn't work had chosen that. People may not have agreed with her, but she wasn't being vile or disablist.

diotima · 10/03/2012 15:24

I guess what matters most is how honestly people advance their own views and attack others.

Part of that honesty has got to include steering clear of personal attacks otherwise it becomes an argument about motives and character. Similarly, it's not enough to claim authority only based on personal credentials. Hence the earlier comment about posters coming out with the knock-down, "I'm right because I've been on MumsNet for ages!" Some of these manoeuvres are a bit more subtle of course.

flashsale · 10/03/2012 15:33

Very good point, diotima.

Honesty.

diotima · 10/03/2012 15:36

Tricky, because dishonesty has lots of disguises (it's very dishonest like that!).

flashsale · 10/03/2012 15:40

Yes, but it's at the very heart of manipulation. So is pretty crucial.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 10/03/2012 15:40

Yes, like quoting parts of other people's posts to have a wee dig at others.

flashsale · 10/03/2012 15:50

Well, I think Herecomethecavalry's idea for a campaign is a good one.