Don't flame me for starting another BF debate but is BF after age of 2 more about comfort than nutrition?

[doradaisy]

Work colleague admitted today that she still BF her almost 4 year old, she did so with all her DC up to age of about 4. Another more blunt friend replied with 'come off it, for god's sake that's mad' kind of thing. Said BFing work collegue went on a rant about how WHO recommend up to age of 2 and beyond and how she could count with one hand the number of times her children have been on antibiotics, and how cow's milk is SO bad for children and really unnatural, etc, etc and the comment (which annoyed me a bit) that 'her children could not turn around in years to come and blame her for bad health'... We were all a bit silenced and she looked relaly embarrassed.

I piped up that I thought WHO recommended til 6 months, as I did for my PFB DD. I also mentioned my DTwins, 18 months, only got BF for 6 weeks (as pediatrics recommened formula due to jaundice, etc) and have never been on antibiotic

Am just a bit put out at the ranting and her seriously defensive tone and her total moral high ground about it all. I said, in a measured tone, that if she'd decided to BF for so long it was more about 'comfort and less about nutrition'. Am I fair?

I get on quite well with her, but feel like she was fighting a losing battle to convince us. I can see she's doing the right thing but also said 'she knows it's not our cultural norm' - sounds like she's trying to be a bit controversial, no?

Each to their own of course, but why was she being so defensive?!

(goes to hide under a table and wait for the fighting to start )

MrsJasonBourne - I'm going to say this in very simple terms.

The plural of 'anecdote' is not data.

Do you understand what that means?

Quite simply, that your sample size of two children does not - and will not - over-ride decades and decades worth of data and research, gathered in a scientific and robust manner. Your 'entire experience' of breastfeeding consist of two children.

Breastfeeding doesn't guarantee a lifetime free from illness, just as formula feeding doesn't guarantee a lifetime of gastro problems and obesity. This is why anyone whose job it is to conduct the research and disseminate the findings will ensure that they look at the trends and findings at a population level and not just at one or two children.

This thread isn't even about you. It's about someone coming on, after being monumentally rude to another person in their workplace, and wondering why that person took such umbrage to the comments.

People have no obligation to water down the facts and benefits of breastfeeding because it might offend someone. They do have an obligation to keep to the facts, to be objective and non-inflammatory - but likewise if such a topic is likely to upset you, then it's probably best to avoid it on places such as Mumsnet.

Easily done - you just don't click on threads with titles such as 'Don't flame me for starting another BF debate...'.

Misssic - I like your posts! And vemom's too...

Breastfeeding - a lot of it is to do with perseverance - it takes time and support and the right advice to get it right.

Sounds like she was put into a position of feeling attacked.

You sound judgemental where you really have no business to be - her breasts, her child and the children are safe and well looked after by a very caring mother.

You also sound like you have taken her choices and reasons for them as an attack on you bf choices when if you said that you bf for 6 mths and where happy with your achievement then she would have probably been very happy for you - there is no reason to feel defensive the way that you do.

Whether it is for comfort or nutrition is fairly inconsequential isn't it - either is fine :)

As a global public health recommendation, infants should be exclusively breastfed for the first six months of life to achieve optimal growth, development and health. Thereafter, to meet their evolving nutritional requirements, infants should receive nutritionally adequate and safe complementary foods while breastfeeding continues for up to two years of age or beyond.

Eaurouge, the key is in the "for up to 2 years of age" there, if you go into the research behind it you will see that outcomes are far better in developing countries of bf carries on after 6 months, but are fairly irrelevant in developed countries if sensible alternatives are used.

I didn't know Dettwyler had been 'debunked'. May I have some references please? (Not in an angry 'back up your statement' way, just because I'm interested, and her writing has been important for me, so I'd like to know

Just read up about Dettwylers methods, you can debunk it yourself in 2 minutes flat. And I'm not going to link to stuff because past experience is pages and pages of frothing and calling me names. But, if you are genuinely interested, there is a huge amount of data on weaning times in real societies, both present and past, it's just not on page 1 of Google where all the heavily trafficked bf belief sites are.

I don't care how long people bf for, its absolutely their business - but I do care about the ebf belief-based crap that is spouted.

Using the WHO to back up any argument in the UK is ridiculous, it's aimed at third world countries.

I have heard that after 2 the milk turns in to fruit shoot. It happens overnight. The woman is a selfish attention seeking cow - challange her some more, bet she just wants to save money on breast feeding so she can buy gin.

Leave the bastard.

And the inference that breastmilk is a comfort and therefore the superior comfort was annoying.

MrsJasonBourne, please show me where anyone said it was superior comfort for EVERY CHILD. It works better for ME and my DS. Unlike you, I don't confuse my personal experience with data and facts.

Every time I read a statistic about breast feeding it goes completely against my entire experience of breastfeeding. So there.

But of course you know this because you know about every single case of breastfeeding ever and therefore am more qualified to judge.

No, I understand statistics. Go to your library, get a book on statistics for dummies, and fucking learn something before you continue to believe your own personal experience invalidates the research of the World Health Organisation!

If you want to continue to be offended by data and facts, please go ahead, but you only make yourself looking increasingly foolish and ignorant.

Posie, that has already been debunked in this thread.

So Posieand Whatmeworry - what are you saying, exactly?

That breastmilk and formula milk are much of a muchness in the developed world?

Is this what you're saying?

Eaurouge, the key is in the "for up to 2 years of age" there, if you go into the research behind it you will see that outcomes are far better in developing countries of bf carries on after 6 months, but are fairly irrelevant in developed countries if sensible alternatives are used.

You're right, I haven't read this research, I have read quite a lot of stuff about breastfeeding but I've never read anything that says benefits are irrelevant in developed countries. Can you provide links? Which benefits do you think are irrelevant in developed countries?

I think Posie is saying the difference in health outcomes between babies bf to 6 months and those bf longer is fairly small in developed countries..

Lots of knowledgeable people here so can I just ask - when can I expect DS to self-wean?

He is 4.5 and autistic. In our case I think his insistence on BF (also complete bottle refusnik) is to do with his need for rigid and inflexible routine. It was also a way of bonding when his autism was so severe that he wouldn't speak, cuddle or even look at me

We have managed to cut out BF out of the house, BF during the day and now he only comes in for a quick nip in the morning. And it is turning into a nipping action. Is he naturally forgetting how to latch because at his age he isn't starting to lose his baby teeth yet. Maybe the shape of his jaw is shifting underneath?

Gah - he is five in May ( that came around quick) if that makes any difference.

Creepy, you could start a thread about this in the BF/FF section, you should get a lot of helpful replies there :)

Can you provide links? Which benefits do you think are irrelevant in developed countries?

Google is your friend if you are genuinely interested. Its all there. As is the WHO reserach, on their site.

Cheers EauRouge. I had forgotten there was one. I came to MN when DS was two so thought I knew it all until this new thing

I think Posie is saying the difference in health outcomes between babies bf to 6 months and those bf longer is fairly small in developed countries

She is correct.

Even if BM and cows milk are identical after 6 month (which they arent) does that mean women should stop breastfeeding? Why?
I don't get these threads, there are always people coming on to say smug breastfeeders shoving it down my throat, whereas its fairly clear that they are the ones being judged (who is only for developing countries, its only or comfort)

Show us where the who she it only applies to developing countries. Because until then, frankly, I don't believe you

I agree, SPB. I am completely baffled being told I have been 'offensive' because I said breastfeeding comforts my child!

Ok nhs recommends into their second year or beyond, if you and baby wish to.

Nhs is UK based BTW

WHO do recommend BF until 2 years old. It sounds like she felt a little backed into a corner and struggled to get her point across. Everyone has their own comfort zone for stopping BF, for me it was 18 months with my DD.

You can't deny that studies have shown benefits from extended BF, for example reduced rate of ear/gastro infections. But to pick out one example as a proving point is ridiculous. Its like the people that say "my grandad smoked 40 a day and lived to 100" Does that mean smoking is not harmful to health then.

The WHO is not aimed at 'third world' countries. Lots of its research is into health issues that are more prevalent in the developed nations - heart diseases, obesity, diabetes and so on.

Chairman you are about to get slated by people intentionally missing the point for comparing formula to cigarettes.

I am sick of doing what works for me and my children and being criticised and judged by uninformed, bigoted fuckwits. Bet the woman the op describes is too. Think I might start choosing women at random and saying "you need to stop feeding him carrots now he's two", "she doesn't need cuddled now she's five, you shoud be ble to comfort her in another way, surely"