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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you take your kids to the cafe, you shouldn't bring a packed lunch for them?

286 replies

AndiMac · 07/03/2012 13:02

I'm at the garden centre and there's a soft play area attached to the cafe bit. A mum with two kids about 4 is here with her friend. They have ordered lunch, but the kids are having food the mum brought from home. Not just a couple of breadsticks, but sandwiches, sides and a drink. The cafe has food for kids, so that isn't an excuse.

I can understand that going out for lunch is expensive, but am I being unreasonable to think if you can't afford to buy lunch for your kids as well as yourself, maybe you should come after lunch and just have a coffee?

OP posts:
MidnightinMoscow · 11/03/2012 06:51

I have come to this thread late, but cannot believe some of the attitudes on this thread.

In genuine cases of allergies, I can't see why a parent would decide to take out a packed picnic and eat it in Starbucks-just have them eat BEFORE you go into a coffe house- otherwise you're just using the place as a picnic table.

Have you any idea Mummie what life is like with allergies? Having to check every food? Being in a constant state of worry that you'll need to use the epipens? Having to explain to your DC why that cannot have the same as everyone else?

Enjoy your Starbucks. Hope your judgy wedgie doesn't mean you'll choke on your mocha.

exoticfruits · 11/03/2012 08:05

Allergies are completely different to fussy eater and should be treated differently. I don't think that anyone would object to someone with allergies taking their own food. The fussy eater could just go hungry.

Sparklingbrook · 11/03/2012 08:32

But this thread was not about allergies, it was about whether people should take their own food to a cafe where there is a sign to say they can't. Confused

MidnightinMoscow · 11/03/2012 08:45

Well as mentioned up thread, how would you know if DC's have allergies? My DC doesn't look any different to any other children.

In the event of going to a cafe where a sign is present asking people not to eat their own food, I'd have a discreet conversation with the staff and outline the problem.

Although exotic, Mummie objects to allergic children eating their own food in Starbucks.

Sparklingbrook · 11/03/2012 08:47

I think that's the answer Midnight. Just have a word with the staff. We will never know if the children in the OP had allergies or not will we?

exoticfruits · 11/03/2012 09:07

It all goes to show that people shouldn't do it if they just have a fussy DC and then we could assume that those with their own food needed it.

I wonder at what age you have to stop on the 'fussy food' issue? I am just imagining going into a cafe for a drink, with my own lunch saying 'I'm sorry but you don't have any food I like'!

misdee · 11/03/2012 09:17

by some peoples standards, if they see me out with my 5 children, they would think i'm 'horrible' to dd4 and not buying her nice food to eat in cafes.

dd4 has anaphylatic allergies to eggs, milk and nuts. so often when out with all my children we stop for a drink and snack. except that i have in my bag, food for dd4. these are special 'treat' foods for her, but to some it would appear i am being tightfisted. so my older ones sit and have a hot chocolate/milkshake, and she has a smoothie. the older ones may have a muffin, and she'll have some biscuits or crisps.

i try and buy her stuff when out that she can have, but if all else fails and nothing is suitable, then the snack box is always there.

Bonsoir · 11/03/2012 09:20

It is outrageous to eat a picnic in the premises of commercial catering businesses. The only exception is breast and bottle feeding for babies.

Sparklingbrook · 11/03/2012 09:21

The thing is, it isn't actually anyone's business. Of course everyone can think what they like about anything. I don't actually pay much attention to what everyone else is doing in a cafe really.

Bonsoir · 11/03/2012 09:23

It is very much the business of the café owner (who is paying rent and has bought tables and chairs) if people use his premises for free picnicking.

Sparklingbrook · 11/03/2012 09:24

I meant any of the other customers Bonsoir. Perhaps the cafe owners should be more vigilant?

hazeyjane · 11/03/2012 12:50

And if you have asked the cafe owner, if it is ok, because there are very good reasons why the child can't eat the food that is in the cafe, and they are ok with it, then why does anyone else care!

This is such a frustrating thread, maybe the children in the op didn't have any good reason why they shoudl have a bit of their own food, but why the hell does it matter, if the cafe didn't care.

Sparklingbrook · 11/03/2012 12:51

I am shocked it is still going on after 5 days.

brdgrl · 11/03/2012 13:41

Other people's behaviour and actions in a place of private business or public service are, actually, the business of other patrons. It is why we asked to be quiet in libraries and bookstores, or to not let children run about unsupervised in shops, and it is part of the social contract that keeps people (well, non-jerk people, anyway) from swearing in front of the children at the next table, or yelling rude jokes to their buddies on the bus. These things don't just make it easier for employees or protect the income of the shop owners, etc - they allow other people to participate in life without undue inconvenience or disturbance. It is so simple. People should act nicely in the world so that other people can enjoy themselves. If you are acting nicely when you go out, then you probably aren't the person causing a problem.

However - If a customer is bothered by something in a private establishment, they are not unreasonable to say so. If customers don't speak up to the owners when they are bothered, the owners may not know that anyone has been inconvenienced or disturbed. If the owner doesn't mind the behaviour - whatever it is - or if they have decided that pleasing one group of people (those who like to sit for hours without ordering much, but who come back every d,ay just for instance, versus people who come once a month and order a big meal)then of course that is fine - but the point is that people have a right to let the world (or mumsnet, anyway) and the owners know what they would prefer, on both sides.

Of all the arguments on here, this one - it's nobody's business - is possibly the silliest. I guess the same people who say that think it is ok to act like as much of a jackass as they like wherever they go, because after all, they are the only ones who matter!

and again, I am not speaking to or about people who have allergies and medical conditions. I am speaking to and about the ones who don't. That distinction continues to be made on this thread, and continues to be ignored. Huge difference between situations, and no, it enot just about the OP, as obviously people have been talking about a range of situations and addressing those.

I also can't believe it is still going on. Think I will have to abandon it myself because it is just too frustrating. :)

Borka · 11/03/2012 13:51

But brdgrl, even if the children don't have allergies or medical conditions, how does it actually affect you if they're eating a packed lunch in a cafe? It's not at all the same as swearing or running about, it's only an issue for the cafe owner.

brdgrl · 11/03/2012 14:16

If they are taking up seats and not eating, my chance of getting a seat is reduced.
This isn't just being bitchy. Where I live/work, there is one area with a concentration of cafes. At busy times (and not just lunch, it is a busy area), it means that - frequently - one cannot get a seat in the cafes. When I go on my own and eat or have a coffee, I take up less seating, space, and, often, time than when I am there with DD. If I am using multiple seats and (perhaps although I admit not necessarily) for a longer time, that does affect the people around me as well as people who would like to come in but find the cafe too crowded.

Adding to this problem by using a space when not providing a reasonable level of custom seems wildly inconsiderate to me. A reasonable level of custom is I admit a vague term, but I think most people are capable of figuring it out. If you are there with three kids and you buy one coffee and serve them a packed lunch, that is unreasonable. If you buy yourself lunch and share it out with a baby, or breast/bottle feed a baby, no one most people would consider that reasonable. If you have a child with special food needs and you can't meet those without self-catering, again, that is reasonable. I kep coming back to this thread in part because I feel that a reasonable position - one based in common sense and consideration for others - is somewhere in the middle and I resent the way that some people on the thread are obscuring that.

Someone compared it above to bringing your laptop to a cafe and not ordering. I think that is inconsiderate, too, and I think most reasonable people know, inside, when they are taking the piss. I do a lot of my work in a coffeeshop. I alos frequently take DD to coffeeshops. I am not unaware of the difficulties of both activities. But I feel like the 'cost' of using the space is that I have an obligation to purchase items and to also be mindful of other people who are sharing the space.

In some of (again, not all) the responses on this thread, people have defended the practice of taking multiple children to a cafe and feeding them there, while the adult buys, for example, a coffee. This is probably the most extreme example, sure - but some people are saying that it is not my business if any one wishes to do that, for reasons of economy, preference, or convenience. I am merely saying that it is, and that I am certainly within reason to post here that I think it is wrong and inconsiderate without being shouted down for being 'insensitive' (insensitive to whom? assholes? I've already TRIED to make it clear that my complaint is not with those who have a legitimate medical reason for self-catering) or being told that it is not my business how other people conduct themselves even when it does affect me.

And there I go again...I really must go do laundry.

Mummle · 11/03/2012 19:14

Brdgrl -I agree with you 100%

Some posters here have even tried to twist my own words to make out that I am against people with food allergies occupying and eating at a table -I couldn't believe it when I saw that one poster actually put these words in my mouth... To put the record straight, I suggested that, if your child can't eat the food in Starbucks, then why take him there?

In any events, I echo exactly the same sentiments as Brdgrl,

MidnightinMoscow · 11/03/2012 19:22

Because Mummie, my DS cannot really eat freely anywhere. He is allergic to: Dairy, egg, peanut, pine nut, sesame, tomatoes beef, and lamb and avoids all other nuts.

Actually, the only meal he can eat out is a Mcdonalds happy meal with fish fingers. Funnily enough, its not something I want him to eat all the time we go out and certainly not at 10.30am.

Also, it's really good experience for my DS to be around food that he cannot eat. I am teaching him to check and ask me, to be cautious etc which is hard as he is the toddler 'grab everything' stage.

Mummle · 11/03/2012 19:26

Midnight, no one on here objects to people with genuine allergies eating their own food!!!!

MidnightinMoscow · 11/03/2012 19:29

Sorry Mummie, your quote about getting your allergic child to eat somewhere else prior to going into cafe confused me.

saintlyjimjams · 11/03/2012 19:31

I still don't understand how you know who has allergies or disabilities and who doesn't. You don't object to 'genuine' allergies - but how do you know?

hihosilver · 11/03/2012 19:32

oh for goodness sake! They were only trying to save a few quid.Why do you care?the adults were eating weren't they? and presumably the kids were sharing their tableso not depriving any other paying customers .
Some people really need to get a life and stop worrying about other people 's minor minor misdemeanors!

exoticfruits · 11/03/2012 19:35

I agree brdgrl. At what age do you stop hihosilver? 2yrs, 4yrs, 8yrs, 12yrs, adult? I think it unacceptable-if you want to save money take a complete picnic and don't go into a cafe.

Sparklingbrook · 11/03/2012 19:38

The few quid saved could have gone to the cafe owner, by buying some drinks/food. Confused Plus, as i have said before, there were signs up.

I have to say i have never seen anyone take a picnic to a cafe though.

brdgrl · 11/03/2012 20:28

I still don't understand how you know who has allergies or disabilities and who doesn't. You don't object to 'genuine' allergies - but how do you know?

Why does it matter if I know in an individual case or not??? Did I say that I was going around slapping people I see feeding their child a packed lunch?

Surely the parents know, that is the whole point. If you know you don't require the self-catered meal, and you still do it, you're acting unreasonably.

I wouldn't ever say anything to an individual person, because I don't know.

I may not know if a person is disabled, when I see them parking in a spot for the disabled. Even if they don't have a badge or plate, I am not going to say "oi, you bastard, you can't park there!" - because not all disabilities are visible, and their . But most people will understand if I say that I think people who unnecessarily take those spots are acting very, very badly.

And people who are taking advantage of the fact that people aren't saying anything to the individuals are acting wrongly.