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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want DD to actually read literature in literature lessons?

318 replies

buttonmoon78 · 05/03/2012 10:30

DD1 is in year 9. In English they are just starting Macbeth. Last Thursday she missed a lesson as she had a hospital appointment and this morning informed me that she'd missed some of the dvd they'd been watching. When I said it didn't matter as they'd be surely reading it she said no, they were just watching the dvd. I was a little bit Shock.

I did Macbeth in year 7 - and we read it all. And this was in 1989/90 so not millenia ago.

What makes it worse is that her teacher said that they wouldn't read it because they wouldn't understand it. I mean, what? How to put a student off Shakespeare in one easy step!

AIBU or is this why the Daily Fail goes on about slipping standards in education?

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 05/03/2012 10:33

Hmm. I am a great believer in children seeing plays performed and do not think that reading plays is sufficient. But I don't think that seeing the DVD of the play alone is good enough, no! Far from it.

AwkwardMary · 05/03/2012 10:33

I wouldn't take her word for it to be honest.

avoidinglibelaction · 05/03/2012 10:34

Should be done together methinks- if they have seen the DVD then why won't they understand the paly Confused isn't that what learning literature is all about?

KatAndKit · 05/03/2012 10:35

YANBU. When I was in year 9 we did actually read Romeo and Juliet. They let us watch a video at the end of term for a treat when the work was finished, but not instead of reading the book. We did have a "parallel text" edition where it had the original on one side and a modern English translation on the other side of the page. This was in 1992.

English lessons should not be about watching dvds.

Original poster
buttonmoon78 · 05/03/2012 10:36

I agree Bonsoir - theatre is meant to be performed, but I've yet to see a performance of any Shakespeare which did not edit it heavily (even those at the RSC are not exempt from the editor's knife) so I think they ought to be studied and viewed ideally.

She's normally pretty straightforward Awkward. She's never been able to tell a lie to save her life!

OP posts:
Clytaemnestra · 05/03/2012 10:37

That doesn't sound right. If they're going to be examined on it they're going to have to read it at some point.

I think she might have misunderstood.

Original poster
buttonmoon78 · 05/03/2012 10:37

I've told her we're going to read it together and she seemed quite excited about that.

After all, some of the language is difficult, but when spoken with meaning and definition it often becomes a bit clearer.

OP posts:
imnotmymum · 05/03/2012 10:39

Usually read text and see film to compare and contrast ideas/visuals etc are they really not going to read at least some of it mmm I would contest that not saying she a liar but maybe misunderstood what happening

EdithWeston · 05/03/2012 10:39

Lets hope that it turns out to mean that the class is just watching the DVD right now, and that the reading will follow.

Clytaemnestra · 05/03/2012 10:42

Seriously though, if the play has been assigned a term (which I think is pretty usual) what on earth are they going to do once they've watched the DVD, watch it again? It's not possible to teach it like that, and if you think that's what is going on, you need to get it clarified by the school what is happening, or she's going to fail the exam.

Or are they actually studying a different play and watching other Shakespeare first to get them into the mood for it?

I picked up a couple of the Manga Shakespeare's last time I was at the RSC, they're actually a really good introduction to the play, while getting the reader into the swing of the language, if she's interested get her to try some of them?

Original poster
buttonmoon78 · 05/03/2012 10:49

I've not seen tham Clytaemnestra. I'm a bit out of touch!

I think parent's evening is in the next 3 weeks or so and I'll be asking questions then. I'm hoping she's wrong but preparing myself for the possibility she's right!

OP posts:
Goldenbear · 05/03/2012 10:49

YANBU, I don't read the paper you refer to but am still shocked, concerned for my children's future secondary education.

I agree with Bonsoir about it being important to see a Shakespeare play performed but I found that my enjoyment in watching a play was a lot greater once we had read and understood it.

When I was studying English Literature 'A' level we did watch the Kenneth Brannagh 'Hamlet' film but we had already read the play, explored the themes and seen a performance at the theatre. We saw the film to compare and contrast the deliverance of the key scenes on stage and on camera. This doesn't sound like what your DD's teacher is doing.

It sounds like the teacher is cutting corners to move swiftly through a curriculum checklist- just the sort of 'Education' that I bet you really wanted for your DD??

Original poster
buttonmoon78 · 05/03/2012 10:50

Oh absolutely Goldenbear. I just wanted an education which touched the sides, no more. Hmm

OP posts:
Clytaemnestra · 05/03/2012 10:56

Manga Macbeth

It is an abridgment, but it's a good way to get to grips with the basic language and story. I haven't read this one, but I have read the versions of Richard III and Merchant of Venice and they added a great dimension to the story while sticking with the original language etc.

I just can't envision that it's possible to study a play without reading it. You need it in front of you when you're discussing it. How are they going to reference quotes, just hope they remember them? Really hope that it's all been a misunderstanding, otherwise you can probably write off that GCSE.

takeitaway · 05/03/2012 10:56

Hi buttonmoon, are you sure the teacher didn't mean that the class would not be reading the play at this stage, that initially they would just be studying the film/getting to know the storyline? I'm not averse to that kind of teaching, actually. I studied Macbeth, Richard III, Othello etc at grammar school back in the Eighties, and none of us really understood or enjoyed it because we were basically given the text and told to read the first Act as homework, with occasional stilted read-throughs in class. I didn't have a clue what the plays were about! Had we seen a televised or stage adaptation first, I'm sure I would have appreciated the text a whole lot more....

Cherriesarelovely · 05/03/2012 10:58

I absolutely don't think it is a bad idea as an introduction to the text. It is hard for the children to visualise the scenes when the language is quite complex. We take my DD to an outdoor shakespeare performance every year but before we go we always give her a general synopsis of the plot so that she knows what she is looking for. She is 9 and absolutely loves it.

Kaloobear · 05/03/2012 10:58

She must have misunderstood. No teacher could get away with that. (Or would want to I'd hope.)

Whatmeworry · 05/03/2012 10:59

Roman Polanski's Macbeth was a classic, I'll wonder if that's what they were watching. So long as they read the book too....

takeitaway · 05/03/2012 11:08

We've taken that approach too, cherriesarelovely - we have a set of books, I think they're by Orchard, with a synopsis of many of Shakespeare's plays - Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet, The Tempest, etc. I guess they're aimed at primary level, but have actually been a big help to my DCs at secondary school too as an introduction, just so they know the bones of the play before they start studying it.

Shanghaidiva · 05/03/2012 11:08

I think it is important to see the play performed. Study the text and then watch the dvd. For A level back in the early 1980s we studied King Lear and watched 2 film versions and also went to see Othello at the Barbican - Ben Kinglsey and David Suchet - swoon!

Bucharest · 05/03/2012 11:11

If you want to give your daughter some extra bits and pieces to work on that aren't (seemingly) being covered in class, teachit.co.uk has oodles of free pdf activities on the literature syllabus in the UK. (I've just "taught" Romeo and Juliet and Dickens Hard Times exclusively using them!)

Pascha · 05/03/2012 11:11

I did Macbeth in year 9 in 1991. We only saw a dvd and then given questions on the story. Not once did I see a book.

JerichoStarQuilt · 05/03/2012 11:21

If they're really not reading the text, that is beyond stupid. It's a really short play and not hard.

I think DVDs/live performances are brilliant and it'd be silly to study only the text since it's a play, not a text intended to be read. But for studying surely you need to look at the words on the page and have the teacher explain what they mean, or you're sunk?

highlandcoo · 05/03/2012 11:25

Unfortunately your daughter could well have understood the teacher correctly.
A couple of years ago I did some tutoring for GCSE English lit, and was dismayed to discover that the pupils only studied two scenes extracted from The Tempest, never read the whole play and were spoon-fed enough quotes etc to supposedly get them through the exam.

It's great to watch a DVD to gain an overall understanding - after all, these plays were written to be performed - but this should be followed/accompanied by close study of the language, the themes, the characters' development and all the rest of it.

Hope you get some satisfactory answers at your parents' evening.

CovertTwinkle · 05/03/2012 11:28

Not too many years ago (im 21) Macbeth was still part of the syllabus in year 9 for the SATs tests. Only one act from the play was part of the syllabus as were a few poems from a collection and an extract from a classic novel as the exam needed to see an ability to analyse indepth a short section of Shakespeare as opposed to giving a critcal analysis of the entire play. However to give us a better understanding of the extract we watched the whole play - which actually benefitted us and gave us a better understanding of the section we were studying. so if thats still the syllabus which wouldn't suprise me ... then it may explain the use of DVD.

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