To want DD to actually read literature in literature lessons?

[buttonmoon78]

DD1 is in year 9. In English they are just starting Macbeth. Last Thursday she missed a lesson as she had a hospital appointment and this morning informed me that she'd missed some of the dvd they'd been watching. When I said it didn't matter as they'd be surely reading it she said no, they were just watching the dvd. I was a little bit .

I did Macbeth in year 7 - and we read it all. And this was in 1989/90 so not millenia ago.

What makes it worse is that her teacher said that they wouldn't read it because they wouldn't understand it. I mean, what? How to put a student off Shakespeare in one easy step!

AIBU or is this why the Daily Fail goes on about slipping standards in education?

You can't get a B for watching 45 minutes of a DVD. Don't be an idiot.

Aaargh I can't believe I let myself get dragged into this again on my morning off!

With all due respect McQueen, until you know what you have to get through with students in 2 years to get them a GCSE you will not understand why they don't know the Brontes. We have to start reading the set texts in Year 9 because there is so much to get through that we can't afford the time to read them in Year 10 or 11. It's a horrible situation for everybody. We do our best within the constraints we have.

I read constantly at school, everything I could get my hands on, and I hadn't read the entire canon of English Literature by the age of 16. I still haven't. But I deserved my A*, and I'm a good teacher.

I have witnessed spoon-feeding and bad teaching. But most of what I see around me is creative, active, caring, intelligent, adaptable teaching under a workload that is almost impossible to handle.

Ime teaching today is infinitely superior to the copying off the board, answering questions out of the textbook schooling I endured in the mid nineties,

I do wish people would stop perpetuating the myths that state schools have low standards. It is not true. An A* from a state school is the same as one from a private one, it just comes with a different culture.

All children are tasked with reaching their potential and we are there to help them. I've sat through hours of meetings where we have gone through lists of children who are underachieving and worked out strategies to help them. They're not just tossed by the wayside. I've had parents laugh at me when I've discussed getting their child from an A to and A* as that is what their potential is and they think an A is absolutely dandy. But I haven't :)

LeQueen when you worked in a school you could have set up an extra curricular literature group if you had wanted surely? If there's not time in the classroom for the Brontes then offering it to pupils who are interestedas an extra could have been an option.

Quattro of course state schools differentiate. I think every teacher on this thread has posted about "teaching set X" and feeling that a specific way of teaching the plays was appropriate to those children.

Do you seriously think that a child at state school getting an A*/A in English Lit at GSCE is taught in exactly the same way as someone who gets a D/E?

I only know what you and others have told me about what goes on in the classroom.

So far, it's been a bit of a shock.

I want to take issue with these targets. Why is the whole emphasis on children achieving their targets, rather than beating them?

Well may I politely suggest you read properly what people are posting Quattro? You've been told several times that teachers use a variety of methods for teaching Shakespeare. Texts/DVDs/theatre.

Also teachers giving examples have used the phrase "when teaching my Set 3" So they clearly DO differentiate work for their children or what would be the point of setting?

I agree that Shakespeare wrote his plays to be performed, rather than read, and I applaud the many initiatives currently running which aim to facilitate schoochildren watching Shakespeare for free.

LeQueen so you've been a TA as well as an editor, beautician, private tutor and receptionist at a dental surgery? You are the Miss Rabbit of MN

LeQ's my age, if I added TA to what I've done since leaving school I'd probably have a list like that. Add on what I did whilst in the 6th form and you can add another 2 strings to my bow.

Is it pick on LeQ week, I didn't get the memo.

The problem is that I have been reading what you and others have been posting.

I have learned about excerpt based learning rather than reading the text

I have learned about watching a DVD rather than reading the text

I have learned that teachers focus upon getting the people getting 'D' grades up to a 'C' to the exclusion of all others

That's actually what has been stated on this thread. I'm not exaggerating. That's what some of the teachers on this thread say that they do.

I understand that Shakespeares plays were written to be performed but surely they need to be studied in the same way that you need to learn French to understand Molière. Shakespeares English is not the same English as the average teenager.

sanuk another one here who has done an eclectic mixture of things in her time.

I've lived in several countries and been among other things, a corporate lawyer, a translator, a quality control officer, a waitress and an author. I have also volunteered as an adult lieract coordinator, a sort of TA in primary school and on the managemnet staff of a law centre.

Life is for living!

I think I'm probably younger than Lequeen and possibly word factory too but I have been a kitchen porter, a shop assistant, a recruitment consultant, a PA, an insurance claims investigator, a paralegal and a solicitor. So no need to be snippy. Lots of people have done lots of stuff.

This is starting to sound a bit billy Bragg actually.

Going back to the subject in hand, I don't doubt there is a lot of very fine teaching going on. There's also quite a lot of painting by numbers, according to the information provided by teachers on this thread.

Sorry for getting your name wrong LeQ. I might disagree with you but there's no excuse for poor spelling!

Chubfuddler- of course lots of people have done different jobs. They just don't tend to mention all of them regularly on MN, or have such a diverse selection, or do them at the same time. (which is calked having a portfolio career I think). I have a similar list to you, actually.Paralegal and Solicitor are not divese- that's a career progression. I personally differentiate between student jobs and those done as a career - do the former count? I suppose they do! I might start a thread as I'm interested in people's different jobs and juggling different things.

Sorry for awful spelling - iPhone

Quattrothingybob: "I have learned about excerpt based learning rather than reading the text
I have learned about watching a DVD rather than reading the text
I have learned that teachers focus upon getting the people getting 'D' grades up to a 'C' to the exclusion of all others"

There is a perfectly legitimate place for the first two things - but it depends on the skill you're teaching. We dont' just teach content, by the way - we're not librarians.
I haven't seen any teacher say they use a DVD instead of reading the text at all - can you show me where a teacher has said they actually do that?
If schools focused SOLELY on C/D borderline pupils, they'd be in a lot of trouble. I don't know of any schools where that is the exclusive focus.

The targets you want to 'take issue with' are set externally. They are based on the prior attainment of each individual child. A school is doing well if they meet those targets. They are exceptional if they exceed them. Of couse we aim high. And lots of children do better than their targets - nobody sees them as a limit.

You really are determined to see the worst in us, aren't you?
Is it teachers as a whole you hate, or just those in state schools?

bronze yes, I agree about S's pays having to be taught. It's just that they do come alive when performed well.

QC, are you going to add anything new to your 'argument' and respond to the counter-arguments or are you going to just keep repeating the same things? 90% of your posts on this thread seem to contain the words 'excerpts', 'DVDs' (no need for an apostrophe here) and 'Middle English'. I wonder if you studied English Language to the same level as Literature.

When you have taught a Y9 class of disaffected, disadvantaged boys with very poor literacy levels, various SEN and emotional and behavioural difficulties, then I'll be willing to have a conversation with you about the appropriateness of different teaching approaches when teaching Shakespeare.

So are the teachers on ths thread just going to mock/deride and nit pick any posters that dare express an opinion contrary to their own?

I mean really.

Retaining good staff in inner city schools is a nightmare, explains the popularity of Teach First in those schools.

"So are the teachers on ths thread just going to mock/deride and nit pick any posters that dare express an opinion contrary to their own?"

No - all the teachers that have posted have tried to explain what they do and why. The 'nit-picking' has been done by other posters.

LeQueen - are you trying to suggest that comprehensives and secondary moderns do not have inspirational, motivated teachers? That is a dangerous road to go down, I'd say...

Wordfactory - out of interest, what plays do you and your children read together? And do you each have a part(s)? Mine are too young at the moment but I'd love to do that when they're older.