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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want DD to actually read literature in literature lessons?

318 replies

buttonmoon78 · 05/03/2012 10:30

DD1 is in year 9. In English they are just starting Macbeth. Last Thursday she missed a lesson as she had a hospital appointment and this morning informed me that she'd missed some of the dvd they'd been watching. When I said it didn't matter as they'd be surely reading it she said no, they were just watching the dvd. I was a little bit Shock.

I did Macbeth in year 7 - and we read it all. And this was in 1989/90 so not millenia ago.

What makes it worse is that her teacher said that they wouldn't read it because they wouldn't understand it. I mean, what? How to put a student off Shakespeare in one easy step!

AIBU or is this why the Daily Fail goes on about slipping standards in education?

OP posts:
marshmallowpies · 09/03/2012 18:04

I did the Merchant of Venice at GCSE, in around 1993-4, and we definitely read it cover to cover - and don't recall watching a video of it back then. 'Reading' the play definitely involved the entire thing out loud around the class, so every word of it was definitely spoken aloud at some point by someone in the room.

In terms of 'the play must be performed to see it as Shakespeare intended' - well, all the plays have reached us with many revisions and in multiple versions in comparison to what Shakespeare originally wrote, and I think there's a great deal to be gained from reading the verse as poetry in its own right - but of course seeing it on stage is the best thing of all. The Merchant of Venice is not performed often, though, due to its reputation as a 'problem play', so I never saw a version of it back then and have still never seen it to this day!

At A Level we did watch the BBC filmed versions of various plays which had been made in the 70's/80's and were filmed so poorly they were embarrassing to watch - I remember a scene in Antony and Cleopatra where the characters were meant to be on board ship, and the actors were all swaying from side to side to try and make it look like they were at sea!

However, the recent filmed versions of the RSC's Macbeth (with Patrick Stewart) and Hamlet (with the Blessed Tennant) really are very good and any teenager studying either play should be encouraged to watch them. As others have pointed out, Macbeth is a short play and is very often performed with minimal cuts.

With Hamlet, you'll hardly ever see it performed without cuts (apart from the Kenneth Branagh film) so any staged version is always going to be a director's intepretation of the text...comparing that to the 'official' written text is in itself an interesting challenge for an English student. (I've seen several productions that insert entire scenes from the 'bad' quarto which are not usually considered part of the official text).

I don't want to be critical of teachers who are wrestling with the syllabus as it currently stands, as I don't know quite how it works right now, but if children are not getting the chance to read the plays all the way through then I do think that's a pity. Certainly bright children who are interested and engaged with the play should be encouraged to read it in their spare time if they aren't going to study it in full in classroom time.

Sorry - long post - as an English graduate and Shakespeare lover I am committed to spreading the word that teenagers should not be scared of the Bard!

Sanuk · 09/03/2012 18:05

I think reading out loud is a really good (and quick) way to learn whether a piece of writing is good or not. The cadance, the tone, the economy - or not - of words.

FullBeam · 09/03/2012 18:16

Amaxapax

Thank you for writing such a thoughtful and detailed post. I agree with everything you have said about English teaching.

wordfactory · 09/03/2012 18:17

sanuk we've done all sorts over the years. But I thoroughly recomend radio plays. You can download lots from the BBC's Writersroom. Only 45 mins and lots of sound effects (FX) to enact. You can get very creative with household items!!!

wordfactory · 09/03/2012 18:18

Also by their evry nature radip plays tend to have few parts so you can easily perfrom them with you and your DC's!!

marshmallowpies · 09/03/2012 18:22

Amaxapax - have just read your post and it's heartbreaking. I work with a current A level student (we volunteer together) and was horrified to hear that copies of set texts are no longer supplied as standard...when did this change? 5, 10 years ago, or longer?

It's distressing to think of all those children not getting what I'd consider a basic level of access to books via their school, when we are also faced with libraries closing left right and centre.

VictorianIce · 09/03/2012 18:43

What on earth could you mean by 'a basic level of access to books'? My school never gave me a copy of the text. At A level, I bought my own - we all did.

All this shock horror, wailing and gnashing of teeth at issues that are obvious and (at heart) down to time and finances is getting a bit wearing. Schools can't afford to buy your children books. They can't afford to keep replacing lost ones. They'd rather spend money on new books than replacing old ones. I can't make any child buy a copy of the text, but I certainly recommend it to all year groups (9 and up, at least). I study full novels and plays with all year groups, but you can't get breadth and depth unless you do a mixture of extracts and whole texts - isn't that obvious, in 3-4 hours a week?

As I think I've already said, we have to teach skills and content. English is mroe than literacy, and literature is more than 'reading books'.
Wht worries me the most about this thread is the way people seem to think that however they were taught is the 'right' way - it's very Gove-like in it's naivety. ;)

wordfactory · 09/03/2012 19:07

I think those of us that gained a life long love of Shakespeare and literature from school are rightly defensive of that.

We want it passed along to the next generation.

I have a horror that too many things in education are becoming the preserve of the rich boys as the NC and under funding leave the state system unable to pursue them.

I don't blame teachers for this at all. But I guess I am a littel shocked that they're not jumping up and down about it and in some cases seem to be defending it.

marshmallowpies · 09/03/2012 19:19

What on earth I mean is, in 1993-4 I was still getting my set texts for A Level provided for free by the school. My mum was a teacher up to 2001 and as far as I know her school were still providing text books as standard. Something has evidently changed since then, I am surprised, and am expressing surprise, that's all.

I am not trying to do down teachers and schools with limited resources, I understand things are very different now from 18 years ago, and I have 100% respect for anyone that works in education, as the daughter of a teacher - I am just surprised that this happened and would like to know when? Does this extend to French/science text books which presumably children do need to take home to do homework from? - do they have to pay for them?

I can remember having to pay for a specific French dictionary for my A levels, mind you. And I DON'T want to go to a world of Michael Gove rote learning, god forbid.

Sanuk · 09/03/2012 19:20

WordFactory - Genius idea re radio plays! I am well-aquainted with BBC Writersroom. I just hope it's still there in 5 years' time.

It's a shame that a hard copy of set texts can't be handed out any more. It does really disadvantage those kids whose parents can't or won't pay for the books.

Chubfuddler · 09/03/2012 19:22

I was supplied with copies of all set texts throughout school, right up to a level. I'm really shocked this is no longer the case, or if it was not the case in other schools.

Chubfuddler · 09/03/2012 19:23

X posted. I left school in 1997.

TartyMcFarty · 09/03/2012 19:27

I study full novels and plays with all year groups, but you can't get breadth and depth unless you do a mixture of extracts and whole texts

You don't get depth studying extracts. Said it before, will say it again.

Of course schools supply copies of the text. It's not always possible to let students take them home though - invariably you lose 25% of a set that way.

TheFallenMadonna · 09/03/2012 19:30

I teach science. I have done so for 14 years. I have never had textbooks to send home. My a level students buy their own books. My gcse students buy revision guides.

Pixel · 09/03/2012 19:54

I've still got the copy of Romeo and Juliet that I had to buy for school and that was 25 years ago so it's not exactly a new thing.
I was rather pleased that dd did Macbeth at school last year but on the basis of this thread I've just asked her if they actually read the whole thing. She said "Um well, they told us what happened and we watched a dvd" which didn't thrill me!

GetDownNesbitt · 09/03/2012 20:00

After a combination of reading the text and studying the DVD, a Y9 boy wrote his own soliloquy using 'thou' correctly this week. A month ago, he thoughtbShakespeare was a load of shite.

The class suggested that this success means I deserve a pay rise.

They covered the school with famous quotations from Shakespeare the other week, too. And understood them all.

So, I might be doing something right. Go me.

VictorianIce · 09/03/2012 20:04

"You don't get depth studying extracts. Said it before, will say it again. "
I know. I said both breadth and depth.

IAmSherlocked · 10/03/2012 10:42

Thank goodness for some of the measured, thoughtful, sane responses on this thread from VictorianIce et al.

As for those of you who think that the only way to teach Shakespeare is to read a series of texts from beginning to end with no differentiation, no efforts to engage the disaffected students or the functionally illiterate, no efforts to allow the students to experience the text as performance... Well. I'm hugely relieved that since the majority of you appear not to actually be English teachers, you won't ever be teaching my child. I want my child to be inspired by literature and its beauty and power and passion, to be excited by the myriad different ways that Shakespeare can be performed and interpreted.

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