To want DD to actually read literature in literature lessons?

[buttonmoon78]

DD1 is in year 9. In English they are just starting Macbeth. Last Thursday she missed a lesson as she had a hospital appointment and this morning informed me that she'd missed some of the dvd they'd been watching. When I said it didn't matter as they'd be surely reading it she said no, they were just watching the dvd. I was a little bit .

I did Macbeth in year 7 - and we read it all. And this was in 1989/90 so not millenia ago.

What makes it worse is that her teacher said that they wouldn't read it because they wouldn't understand it. I mean, what? How to put a student off Shakespeare in one easy step!

AIBU or is this why the Daily Fail goes on about slipping standards in education?

Feralgirl DD is in set 3/6 and dyslexic! I do take your point however - reading the whole text is going to be inappropriate for some students. If that was the case I would not be worrying!

This whole thread seems to have moved on somewhat since I was on this morning.

I'm glad to see that I'm NBU in expecting her to be reading as well as watching the play. I'll be phoning the school tomorrow to speak to her teacher. Will update then.

While I don't disagree with the g

In reality, in our department we rarely read whole Shakespeare texts in class as there sin

My dc love Shakespeare! We read the children's version and they love all the deaths, farce, romance, ghosts etc etc.

They are 10 and 7 and I'm hoping their appreciation will mean they will be open to reading the original versions when they are older and I'll take them to the theatre to see the more straightforward or child friendly plays at first.

Sooo not too heavy for 13 year olds!

Oh FFS, if there was ever an argument that standards of English teaching are falling then that last post of mine would prove it! (In my defence, phone + inquisitive 6mo DS = posted waaaaay too early)

I'll try again...

While I don't disagree with the sentiment (clearly, DC should be reading literature in literature lessons) I think in reality it is very hard to read whole Shakespeare texts in school because time constraints and the rest of the curriculum simply don't allow it. In my department, we would do a mixture of reading, watching a DVD/YouTube etc, drama based tasks, written tasks etc. I suspect that is what is happening with your DD too. Even my sixth formers rarely read the whole of King Lear (though they don't watch the whole DVD with me either)

Watching DVD after reading text in class - fab

Watching DVD before reading text in class - a bit daft (IMO)

Watching DVD instead of reading text in class - NOOOOOOO!

Your sixth formers don't read the whole text in class time, or they don't read the whole text at all? Because if the latter I a

Bfing babies are a nightmare

If they don't read the whole text at all I am a bit appalled tbh.

I dont know how different schools can get away with it. In my GCSE we didnt read any books at all just did poems from anthology and we didnt read any books at all for the gcse years.

It just wasnt done and for English lit I wrote a piece on having my tongue pierced and the pros and cons (what the hell you could pick your own thing and argue it and I was getting it done later that day) then for Englih Lit we just did those little stories and poems from anthology. They were only about 2 pages long and thats the longest thing I had to read.

Ha! Not just me cursed by the phone/baby issues then?

My sixth formers don't read the whole text in my lessons and, in all reality, most probably don't read the whole text at home either (I'm a realist!) They do however, analyse key sections in a hell of a lot of detail, see the play live, do a four hour workshop at the RSC, undertake all manner if practical activities. My point is that plays are designed to be watched or performed not read and I dont think anyone should worry if their DC don't read the whole thing.

I am interested by those who say that it is daft to watch the DVD before reading the text. When I taught Much Ado About Nothing last year, we watched the Branagh/Thompson version first in its entirety. When we began to read the play, the students had a secure grasp of plot and character and were able to move straight into exploring the development of character, Shakespeare's use of language and structure, as well as discussing directorial and casting choices Branagh had made. As a result, they really enjoyed the play.

I want the students to read the text but I want it to be meaningful for them too. So this year, I am planning to teach Romeo and Juliet by watching the Baz Luhrmann film, reading the text and exploring how effective the modernisation is and whether we are still able to appreciate Shakespeare's original themes and concerns.

Oh - and check which version of Macbeth your DD is watching. If it is the film of Trevor Nunn's stage play with McKellen and Dench, you couldn't ask for a better introduction to Shakespeare as it should be experienced (except seeing McKellen and Dench performing it on stage...) - if it's the Polanski version, your DD's teacher is looking for an easy way out

My sixth-formers did read the whole of Dr. Faustus.

Cos we read it together in class

That's an absolute outrage IMO

My DD is similarly in Year 9 and is just finishing off the Tempest. They read the text, watched a DVD and went to see it. That's right and proper.

I am completely aghast by the teachers/sundry diverse apologists coming on to this thread and explaining they did a couple of scenes from a play and what have you. Have you no shame?

Noooo Sherlocked! Read it (or bits of it) first

You need cliffhangers, suspense, plot development etc to make the lessons interesting.

Hmm. For English Lit AS we did Macbeth. The teacher read 'the hard bits' out to us and then read out the explanations in the margin of the book. No talking, discussing etc. We never got beyond underlining words and scribbling 'personification' or 'metaphor' in the margins when she told us to and moving swiftly on. Sapping enthusiasm wasn't in it!

I always do whole Shakespeare texts from Year 8 (I confess there may be a tiny bit of skippage going on when I do R+J with them but from Year 9 we do every word). I show them the Lurhmann version first as it's so engaging and prevents that "Shakespeare? UGH" response you automatically get. After Year 8 I would show the DVD either as we go along to illuminate the parts we've already read or at the end of the play. Even when we did set scenes for SATs I still read the whole thing to put it in context - we believe in whole texts in my department.

I suppose I might use a DVD only if we'd already read one play and wanted to compare it to another one. Never done that, but I might.

I can guarantee that when you DD went to see the Tempest she didn't see the whole thing Quattro. Just like teachers (most of whom teach more than 'a couple of scenes' now the ghastly SATs are gone) choose the most interesting bits, so do directors!

Apologies for all my typos. I can spell. Honest! I just have a small wriggly child attached to me.

For GCSEs, we read all of Romeo and Juliet aloud in class, saw it performed (with nudity and an old lady in the front row shouting "somebody get a blanket"!) and also saw the Zeffirelli DVD. We did drama for some scenes, etc.

We also watched Evil Dead and made blood-dripping hands out of plaster of paris. So I don't know if that makes standards better or worse!

For O Levels in the mid 80s top set studied a selection of novels and a couple of plays which we wrote essays on, sans texts, armed only with our memorised quotes.

Out of interest I flicked through the mock paper that a mate in bottom set Eng Lit was doing and was startled to discover that you didn't have to write any essays at all - just do comprehension questions based on text in front of you. Not only did you not have to have read the whole thing from cover to cover, the vast majority of the questions required no knowledge of the entire plot whatsoever. I swear I could have got a solid C grade on that paper without ever having heard of the set texts - and that grade would have had just as much apparent value as the one the top set pupils slogged through Richard II to achieve. (to clarify, I think the school did encourage bottom set pupils to read the entire book - but it certainly wasn't necessary)

And that is why exam boards end up in a race to the bottom, because who wouldn't want to choose an exam board which gave their pupils the best chance of the best grades? just like our Latin teacher, who had cherry picked every exam board to find the one where you could get a guaranteed A grade by memorising a few poems in their English translation and not writing any actual Latin (slight exaggeration, you did have to do a Latin to English translation).

Im still reeling at the fact that they are allowed to take the books into the exams with them

YANBU

With the exam board we do, there are no texts in the exam for the sixth form.

Eng Lit GCSE for some boards requires a comparison of play on the page and in performance. For me, there is no chance of taking the kids to the theatre - they and we can't afford it. So we use the film instead.

I have to say I am bloody good at teaching film as well. We do not watch. We study. And eventually they beg me to turn the damn thing off and just read it!

Well, if it was a film adaptation of a book I'd agree wholeheartedly, but I do think that plays should be seen as performances first and, if there's not the finance/opportunity to see it at the theatre, then a DVD is okay. I found it excruciating to study Shakespeare and Chekhov at A Level without ever seeing the plays performed.

However, if they are not also reading the text, that's ridiculous.

I'm not agin watching a recording of them, but I'm appalled (at my dcs experience - it's not new to me on this thread) that they are not set whole books or plays to read. All that nonsence about not having time in class is ridiculous. Surely that's a homework task - 'read the next 3 chapters and we'll be discussing x,y,z in the next lesson'