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AIBU?

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Original poster

To want DD to actually read literature in literature lessons?

318 replies

buttonmoon78 · 05/03/2012 10:30

DD1 is in year 9. In English they are just starting Macbeth. Last Thursday she missed a lesson as she had a hospital appointment and this morning informed me that she'd missed some of the dvd they'd been watching. When I said it didn't matter as they'd be surely reading it she said no, they were just watching the dvd. I was a little bit Shock.

I did Macbeth in year 7 - and we read it all. And this was in 1989/90 so not millenia ago.

What makes it worse is that her teacher said that they wouldn't read it because they wouldn't understand it. I mean, what? How to put a student off Shakespeare in one easy step!

AIBU or is this why the Daily Fail goes on about slipping standards in education?

OP posts:
imnotmymum · 05/03/2012 13:38

ooh KatAndKit even though you picky on my grammar I love a good quote have remembered that for my DC

LeQueen · 05/03/2012 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thegreylady · 05/03/2012 13:41

When I taught year it was still KS3 sats and they had to study set scenes from a choice of Shakespeare plays,one of which was Macbeth. It was usual to watch a film (often Polanski for Macbeth) of the whole play and to study the set scenes in depth in the context of the whole play.

DartsAgain · 05/03/2012 13:42

I think using extracts leads to a tick box mentality. Hard though they are, reading the whole texts can add to the understanding of the extracts. I found Shakespeare hard to read at first but you can get into it after a while. And we saw the plays performed, alongside reading the texts, which helps.

DartsAgain · 05/03/2012 13:48

LeQueen we did at least have our text books with us during our O-Level exam.

I think your point about boredom is interesting, as I've felt recently that adults can underestimate a teenager's concentration span. I also think too many adults forget you can't have stuff being exciting all the time. The point of school is to educate not entertain (although both at the same time can be good).

LeQueen · 05/03/2012 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EightiesChick · 05/03/2012 13:53

This is the postmodern world of edutainment for you.

bruffin · 05/03/2012 13:58

We didn't have any copies of text when I did o'level back in 79. We did Romeo and Juliet and were shown the 1968 film in class. It wasn't fair because the second set got to go up to Leicester Sqaure to see a screening of it, but us in top set had to do with watching it on a tiny television in classSad

Goldenbear · 05/03/2012 14:01

Actually, I loved Hamlet, am I a freak?

mummytime · 05/03/2012 14:05

My DD then aged 11 sat through the TV version of Hamlet the other Christmas, the one with David Tennant in. Is she a freak? Or just G and T (hopeful mother).

EdithWeston · 05/03/2012 14:06

No, just learning to perve DT early (a handy life skill?)

elinorbellowed · 05/03/2012 14:21

Teaching Romeo and Juliet to top-set English. In preparation for GCSE.
Every single lesson "When are we watching the DVD?"
Me: "We won't be watching the whole film, but I will show you some extracts occasionally to support understanding."
"We don't want to watch this old version, we want the DiCaprio version."
"I won't be showing you that, because I much as I love it, it won't help you with the social and historical context which is very important in the exam."
"I don't understand it, you're a rubbish teacher miss, all the other teachers put DVDs on."
Phone call from parent. "Why can't they watch the DVD?"

Yet another situation when teachers can't win. I bet she isn't just watching the DVD. The SATs did cause a lot of this only teaching one scene and watching a film to do the rest, but now that they have gone, it's very unlikely that's what the teacher is doing.

molly3478 · 05/03/2012 14:31

As I just wrote on another thread between year 8 - 11 in my school we read Julius Caesar fro SATs we didnt read one book for GCSE. We watched romeo and juliet with Leo di caprio in it but we never read the book. We didnt have to read any books at all in my GCSE year and I got 2 BBs and was in high sets it was even worse in the lower sets. It all depends on the school and if you are at a crappy one they often dont bother.

hiddenhome · 05/03/2012 14:35

We did Macbeth mid 80s and read it. No video of it at all.

We also studied Henry IV part 1 and, after studying the play, went to the theatre to see a production of it - this was at an ordinary FE college.

I worry about the education system these days Sad

Abcinthia · 05/03/2012 14:55

We studied Macbeth for SATS and The Merchant of Venice for GCSE. This was mid-2000s.

Our teacher made us read it, we did a lot of work in class, wrote a lot of essays on it for homework, answered set questions on the scenes that would come up, then for the last few lessons we'd watch a video for it and discuss what was different between the movie and the play.

We did the same for Pride and Prejudice and Bridget Jones's Diary (one piece of GCSE coursework was comparing Pride & Prejudice to Bridget Jones). The other books, plays and poetry we studied just the text and we didn't watch anything.

PineCones · 05/03/2012 14:56

YANBU at all. Can you help her read it at home?

NotYetEverything · 05/03/2012 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

R2PeePoo · 05/03/2012 15:00

We watched the films of all the Shakespeare plays that we studied at school (superselective, all girls, grammar school, mid 90's) but we also read all of the texts in their entireity as well. We went to see some of them performed too - although my mum was addicted to the Globe theatre and the barbican theatre so I can't remember which ones I saw with the school and which ones I saw with her.

I still remember opening the book and panicking at the seemingly incomprehensible text, and then having it all come to life as the teacher got us to read it out, going around the class and assigning parts.

I;m sure she isn't just watching the DVD, chances are thats just to familiarise them with the story and the language. If it isn't then I would be pretty pissed off to be honest.

QuickLookBusy · 05/03/2012 15:01

I would definitely speak to the teacher button. It just doesn't seem at all common for that to happen.

I was talking to DD the other night and she reeled off the names of Shakespeare plays she has done over the years at school and how she had really enjoyed them.

They always read the texts but also went to performances at Stratford Upon Avon/Globe/local productions and watched DVDs. In fact Romeo and Juliet, with Leonardo in it, was her favourite film when she was 15, and because she watched it hundreds of several times, was able to quote huge sections of the play.

I think they all have their role to play, but they have to be familiar with the text.

kirsty75005 · 05/03/2012 15:03

I agree with you, she should read the text. But I think some of the posters are being a bit too snotty about seeing a DVD. It's theatre. It was written to be seen. Yes, if you want to have a deep understanding of the text then you will have to read it, but equally, you're missing the point if you've never seen it performed, it really doesn't have the same kick to it when read. Think of the amazing things a good director can do with the appearance of Banquo's ghost: in the text you get a stage direction "ghost appears", not written by Shakespeare. Think of the emotion that a good actor can put into "This was your husband" and how much it loses when being read by a shy teenager.

And I don't really see the huge difference between a DVD and a theatre production: I'd rather see a great DVD than a mediocre theatre production.

The first time I saw Shakespeare performed it bowled me over; I went back the next evening, and the next, to see it again: reading the plays has never done that for me, beautiful as they are.

piprabbit · 05/03/2012 15:06

We did Henry V and the school arranged for us to go to the Old Vic and watch 3 plays in one day, Henry IV part 1, Henry IV part 2 and Henry V. One in the morning, one in the afternoon and one in the evening.

It was a fantastic experience. Suddenly the play we were studying opened up and the characters became more rich and complex as we had a whole context for what we were watching.

Trying to understand literature from just an edited DVD or a few extracts is - well - ridiculous.

feralgirl · 05/03/2012 15:16

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that sometimes, with some classes, reading the whole play isn't appropriate. All students have to study Shakespeare at KS4 and there are bottom set students who genuinely wouldn't be able to cope with reading a whole play.

If you're dyslexic and find modern English a struggle then Middle English is going to be really difficult and key scenes alongside the film are probably the only way that you're going to be able to access Shakespeare, gain your target grade and get it all done in half a term before you have to move onto the next bit of coursework (yes, yes, education is a sausage factory). I teach a few students who will baulk at the size of a play and just about manage to read a couple of scenes on paper.

And I would hasten to add that there were kids who were exactly the same in my mixed-ability class when I did my GCSEs 20 years ago and we were all forced to - painfully - read a part and we did Macbeth in its entirety. It was just that, pre-league tables and Ofsted, nobody cared if those kids got a GCSE or not.

That said, the OP is NBU to expect at least some reading to happen and for any mid to higher ability class then it should be most or all of the play imo.

Bonsoir · 05/03/2012 16:12

My DD is 7 and definitely doesn't study literature at school yet in any meaningful way. However, at home I try to get her to both read books and to see DVDs and shows and listen to audio books of the same texts. I think it is good practice for her to learn to know a text and several interpretations of it in great detail.

EightiesChick · 05/03/2012 17:06

elinorbellowed You have my sympathy, in that case.

Chubfuddler · 05/03/2012 17:12

I don't think anyone is being snotty about seeing the DVD. Performance of a live theatre work, or DVD as a close second is a fantastic aid to comprehension. But the text is absolutely key.