To be in awe of private school's...

[whydontwehaveasharpknife]

I am a nanny, the other day I accompanied the girl that I nanny for in rural Northamptonshire to the schools open day, it was AMAZING- the grounds were like a national trust property, the uniforms all hand made by a famous London fashion designer, there was a lake, climbing wall, beautiful dining room, tree climbing, den building, the children who already attend the school were incredibly polite and sat in the library reading broad-sheet news papers.

I grew up on a council estate with a peado living round the corner that used to terrify me when I walked the dog, my mother is mentally ill and I've never lived with her, in my early teens my step mother left to become a heroin addict.

Needless to say, I have had to fight pretty hard for my A levels/sanity/ health and have applied to university this year but I must admit I couldn't help but feel 'lower than these people, the staff, the parents and even the children they were all so refined and I felt they could see that I am not of the same breed.

It is just luck though isn't it, why do some people who are born into fortunate circumstances get all the opportunities at success whilst others have to work really hard into their late twenties just to get the success these children achieve when they are 18.

Once again the assumption that every private school is inherently better than every state school. Simply not true. Private schools take in more affluent, advantaged pupils than state schools. That's all.

Many private schools hide behind their beautiful buildings and their well-turned out pupils because they know that most parents don't have the expertise to judge the quality of teaching.

My SIL is a TA at an extremely exclusive private school. She is a nice young lady with no teaching qualifications, no prior experience of children and was told that they will upgrade her to a full teaching post after a year without the need to get a teaching qualification. All of this because she is an ex-pupil of the school. Is that what you'd call quality?

Last time I looked, state schools weren't allowed to employ unqualified teachers. State schools have Ofsted inspections, private schools don't. State schools have to publish all sorts of data and meet all sorts of standards that private schools don't.

sorry, hijacked the discussion about single mums

but I agree with perception, family breakdown affects people right across the class spectrum - private school kids are just as likely to experience it.

"two parents who stay together no matter what when their marriage isn't working out can be equally damaging for the social welfare of a child imo."

Well, who knows? What we do know is that parenting alone is harder than parenting with another loving and involved person.

"Once again the assumption that every private school is inherently better than every state school. Simply not true. Private schools take in more affluent, advantaged pupils than state schools. That's all."

I totally agree.

Some parents fail to consider that some private schools are selective while others just require you to sign a cheque. We have a friend who falls into the latter category. His DD is predicted Bs and Cs for her coming GCSE exams. Its ok but not much to show for near £150k in school fees over the years. Contrast this with my state school nephew who is predicted Bs with a few As.

Yes but most single parents have extended family to help out. To talk about them in stigmatised terms just for being single parents is offensive nonsense.

I know women who are married to a guy who is married to work. They often say to me that they might as well be single parents wrt how much more they have on their plates. Yet people like marriedinwhite would see them differently just for being married.

Isn't schooling about far more than GCSE results though? The emotional development of the child as an individual is the most important thing imo.

YABU to be 'in awe' of private schools. I was privately educated from the age of 4 and was always in awe of anyone who had got to university from state school - my only experience of pupils from state school was snatched (illicit) viewing of Grange Hill. (My mother banned it).

Ok, that is tongue in cheek, but there are children of differing backgrounds and social experiences at private school - money doesn't buy you happiness, and I had many friends at school who had/have appalling relationships with their parents and siblings or were the victims of hideous divorces/indifferent parents. Life isn't always greener on the other side.

As someone of humble beginnings, I find this thread fascinating. Interestingly, when I was 17, I was selected to partake in an inner city /privileged world project for teens that involved a week stay at Bystons in Blandford, Dorset. Initially, I was blown away by the sheer opulence of the place, however, on closer observation, I learnt that drug abuse, eating disorders, bullying, sexual experimentation and promiscuity were rife this straight from the horse?s mouth. They also talked of feeling unloved and abandoned All us inner city teens were visibly shocked by the admissions. I had one teen who, in the dining hall said to me "you have amazing posture, I'M SURE you don't do ballet, so how'd you do it? Another remarked that the Brystonians who took park were only doing it to earn their charitable stripes.

All of us inner city teens were living independent of our families, had part times jobs in addition to our studies to tend to, amongst other issues. I yes we experienced adversity. I gained better A level grades at my state college than my rich cousins did at their private school. A good friend of mine, a maverick who?s a black male, the son of immigrant parents grew up in a rough council estate in Peckham, London gained 10 A grade GCSE?s at his local secondary school, four grade A?s at A level at the local college, whilst carving a career in athletics (he was part of the u21?s squad), was offered a full scholarship to Harvard and Morehouse, which he turned down, his parents disowned him. He read at Kings, but transferred to Goldsmiths for year two because was none too keen on the commute. Achieved his ACCA accounting qualification and by age 24 was on a salary of £42k a year. He left that top three accounting firm after two years as he felt he?d enjoy work more if he was his own boss, and hasn?t looked back.
I have friends who?d give their right arm to send their children to private school. However, given my experience, would rather send by own to a very good local comprehensive. My daddy always said a child has but one job, to get good grades. Of my circle, those that seem happiest are those that are strong confident types who chose the entrepreneur route , and attended state schools.

SP Bryanston

ActiveC.
It's great that your friend is doing so well but the reality is that for decades black boys have underperformance in the state system. Given that the same does not apply in the private sector I can only assume the state system has let them down.

Same error again, thebestisyettocome ...

The black boys who are selected into the private sector are already advantaged - they are the ones with affluent, educated parents!

What about the ones on bursaries or scholarships

To all those joining the orderly queue to add their anecdotes of the enormous psychological damage these places do and how all their alumni turn out to be (what was it you said, wordfactory?) drug-addled, anorexic terrorists - can I just point out that I went to a comprehensive school and was bullied mercilessly. Alcohol, drugs, underage sex were also going on. These things aren't the exclusive preserve of the private schools, you know.

The point is that human beings are human beings. And everywhere you go there are damaged human beings who are trying to deal with that damage one way or another. It's no worse or better at private schools, no matter how much MN wants to make it so.

So why doesn't everyone apply for a scholarship, do you think?

The ones on bursaries or scholarships are the ones whose parents value education highly, who are highly motivated, who have aspirations (like ActiveC's friend) and who see university as 'for the likes of us'. Again they are a self-selected group - not representative of their entire ethnic peer group.

There is a fascinating study on this from Chicago (I think), described in Freakonomics. Basically Chicago opened up access to all the schools in the city by lottery, so everyone had an equal chance of getting into the best schools if they applied. Of course spaces were limited, so not everyone got their first choice. But several years later, results of all the kids were followed up. The highest-achieving kids were those who had applied to the best schools - whether or not they actually got a place there!

Yet again shows - it's the individual child and their parents who determine the outcome, not the school.

They are not 'the preserve' of private schools Iamsherlocked, and nobody said that. The point that has been made on this thread was in response to the OP and that point is that private schools have their problems just like anywhere else and that the beautiful grounds and posh uniforms often fool people to think otherwise.

What I was implying (albeit poorly I guess ) is that opportunities IMHO always present itself to those with personal determination and ability regardless the school you attended. My friend's father was absent and his peers from his school year are statistics for the most part. I believe the opportunity of the scholarships came as a result of his athletics coach. Now, had he been dossing about on street corners, such an opportunity would never have presented itself? As I mentioned, I have cousins who left private school with C,C,D at A-level and a 3rd class at university. Another cousin attained D, D, F at A level and was promptly married off!

Yes you are correct your statistics, however, for some reason Black boys of African descent are far more likely to achieve than their Caribbean counterpart.

Sorry, I don't believe that every child who applies for a a scholarship has highly motivated parents simply because in lots of cases parents aren't often aware that bursaries and scholarships are available. In these cases the 'initiative to apply comes from their existing school. If your argument held water no child with unsupportive disinterested parents would ever have achieved in their education, and that is simply not true.

ActiveC. You are absolutely right to cite your friend as a shining example but I hope you understand my point. In saying that 'he can do it, so it can be done' could let educators off the hook.

Yet again shows - it's the individual child and their parents who determine the outcome, not the school.

here, here theboobmeister

Don't agree with your logic I'm afraid thebestisyettocome.

However, being an educated, reasonably affluent and motivated parent, I now need to take my similarly motivated child to her music lesson, thus perpetuating social advantage down the generations

thebestisyettocome

I understand your point. I see how I cause you confusion as I typed parent as plural

Why the ActiveC. I think you've argued your point incredibly well

The boobmeister. You are damn sight more motivated than me

I read broadsheet newspapers as a kid. I read adult fiction books from a young age and did well at school. My parents taught me that being interested in culture and politics is important as you will be able to have discussions with all kinds of people. Definitely a middle class upbringing!

But I went to an average comprehensive school, with a diverse mix of pupils. Never went near a private school. I also later went to a good university, (not oxford or cambridge but actually a better one imho!!) with a diverse mix of students.

I found the only significant difference in the students I met who had been to posh schools is that they were arrogant pricks. No real difference in intelligence.

Paying a fortune for schooling is a huge waste of cash.

Wow Wannabeearthmother. Your fantastic intellect doesn't preclude you from making sweeping statements