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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to allow ds to be mean to neighbours ds............

153 replies

crje · 24/02/2012 19:34

Live in a small estate (15 houses) 6 boys between 8-10 all play together even though they are quite different.One soccer mad,one science mad ect. They all come in different places within their own familys,1st chils 3rd child.... There is never a problem between 5 of the boys they can find common ground and get along.

The 6th boy is like a spanner in the works !!!!!!He tries to divide the group,wont compromise and ends up ruining the game when he joins in. The kids do pander to him at times but not always. When they get fed up of him they tell him to go home,run and hide ect

His mom asked one of the other moms today if there was anything she could do about the bullying !!!!!!!! Now imo he is not bullied he is just not popular and its someting his mother needs to work on with him. When the others fall out they sulk come home and when they are ready they jump back in the game without any inerferance from the parents. Do we make exception for this family,I think not

AIBU................

OP posts:
Whatmeworry · 26/02/2012 20:22

If you leave kids to sink or swim on their own, some will swim away and be fine but others will sink. If you know a child is sinking why not offer them some armbands till they learn to cope on their own

But if you choose not to, because that kid is a PITA, is not bullying.

The problem with calling this sort of thing "bullying" is that that doesn't take into account the fact that this kid is a PITA and in order to play with the kid, everyone else needs to fall into said PITA's wishes - in which case, then who is being bullied?

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:24

OK, so let's assume the 6th boy is a PITA. He is a child, and I think, our job as adults is to help the situation. Help him, because that's a nice thing to do, and help the others, who are not behaving very nicely.

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:32

I also think it is stretching it a bit to say that he is bullying. He may be trying to exert some power, for whatever reason. He may not know how to join in. It shouldn't be the boys' responsibility to put up with him, no matter he does, which is where all the parents come in, but I would be absolutely mortified if my son behaved as these boys are doing.

It's easy to be all protected in a group and reject someone else. I try and teach my sons to be as tolerant as they can

dandelionss · 26/02/2012 20:34

'The children played well today observed from a distance by me and two other moms '

..really ? So when they know adults are watching they arwe not mean to this child.

legobuilder · 26/02/2012 20:35

Maybe a strategy given to the six boys - along the lines of "why don't you try having a leader everyday (alternating the six of you) - take turns who chooses the game/is in charge." That way pain in the ass lad will get his glory day, and the other days he has to like it or lump it.
Also, if his mum wants to help, she would do well to invite one or two of the kids round to play regularly - I find that the best way of strengthening my sons' friendships - it seems to build their tolerance and help them bond. you might like to suggest this to her.

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:36

Hmm....

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:37

yy legobuilder. Some children just find groups very hard. Making friends 1:1 is easier. Also helps the others to recognise the other boys strengths

Whatmeworry · 26/02/2012 20:38

He is a child, and I think, our job as adults is to help the situation. Help him, because that's a nice thing to do, and help the others, who are not behaving very nicely.

Help has to go 2 ways IMO - tell the other kids to play with him but also tell him what he has to do to be played with.

And it's that 2nd bit that will help the kid more in later life. You couldn't force 5 adults to willingly let a person they think is a PITA play with them.

mumofjust1 · 26/02/2012 20:45

YABU

Ostracizing a child is classic bullying and how you can allow it I really don't know.

I hope that nobody ever treats your ds this way for his sake. But if they did think, just for a minute how you would feel.

It would break your heart.

Instead of allowing your child to be mean to another, why not encourage him to be KIND and help him feel included? The world would be a far nicer place if people were taught how far a little kindness can go.

If my child behaved the way yours and the other boys do, I'd be mortified. But, she's been brought up to be better than that.

mumofjust1 · 26/02/2012 20:46

Oh, and it's mum

RabidEchidna · 26/02/2012 20:46

The boy you punched in the hall today. Committed suicide a few minutes ago. That girl you called a slut in class today. She's a virgin. The boy you called lame. He has to work every night to support his family. That girl you pushed down the other day. She's already being abused at home. That girl you called fat. She's starving herself. The old man you made fun of cause of the ugly scars. He fought for our country. The boy you made fun of for crying. His mother is dying. You think you know them. Guess what? You don't.

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:49

No, but he's a child, and is learning . I suppose you could argue that continued rejection will force him to change his ways, but OTOH letting these boys get away with what they are doing may smash his confidence

I agree there are possibly things his mum could do to help. I think it's unfortunate that the word bully has steamed the OP up so much, although I understand why. I think many DCs can show bullying behaviour in certain circumstances, and these boys seem to be doing that. That needs addressing as well, rather than rejecting out of hand as the OP is doing.

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:49

my last post was to whatmeworry

Whatmeworry · 26/02/2012 20:52

I think many DCs can show bullying behaviour in certain circumstances, and these boys seem to be doing that. That needs addressing as well, rather than rejecting out of hand as the OP is doing

I think some are choosing to read it as bullying, it can equally easily be read as kids getting fed up with a continually bossy kid and telling him to get lost, without all the circumlocutions adults use.

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:52

Rapid - I agree with that. The trouble is, that often, children with annoying traits are often already disadvantaged in other, hidden ways. It would not be thought OK to exclude someone with a disability in such a way, so I don't think it should be thought OK by adults to do it to a child.

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:53

So it would be better if we behaved as children do when not guided by us?

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 20:53

--sorry, again to whatme

goodasgold · 26/02/2012 20:56

I think the fact that the OP called her own ds behaviour 'mean' implies that she is all up for the children to be friends altogether.

If somebody was a PITA to my dd1 I would advise her to avoid them. I wouldn't think that I was telling her to bully them.

My eg is my dd in y3 looked at her classmate and the classmate said 'what are you looking at?' aggressively. My dd did not like it, I didn't particularly. If my dd avoids this girl is she being a bully?

I saw that little girl with her mother and her mother was being so awful to her, later I told my dd, 'look she speaks like this and is aggressive because thats what she hears at home' So we try to understand, but my dd was still just a little girl and it's not actually her problem.

As an adult I do avoid people who are a PITA. I don't bully them. I just probably wouldn't be friends with them.

troisgarcons · 26/02/2012 21:00

How many threads do we have on this board by people who have toxic/narc persons in their life? Some people are just like that - frankly all this silly bollox about "tolerate" a nasty piece of work? Oh get real! you wouldnt tolerate it in your own adult social life or work life - so you bloody well shouldnt expect your own child to make decisions about who they tolerate or choose to socialise with based on your own inclusion polices (and those inclusion policies adults generally choose to over look).

Life is hard. And lessons are best learned early on.

OriginalJamie · 26/02/2012 21:02

trois You have sod all grounds for concluding anything like that about this child

RabidEchidna · 26/02/2012 21:13

DS2 went to primary school with a lovely little boy who has ADHD, the little chap does not have the best social skill either.
One boy in the class decided he did not want the "spaz" to play with any of the boys and this child's life was made a living hell, so much so that the school sent out a letter to all the parents that said with the exception of one boy in the class every boy had ganged up on and excluded this child (although no names were named). I went to the head and I ask to what extent DS2 had been involved in this (as DS1 was bullied and I would not stand for DS2 being involved in tormenting this poor child who often came to our home)
The head turned to me and said "mrsRabid your son is the only boy in the class who is not involved in the torment, I left the school in tears a mix of pride in my child and sorrow for the little boy.
My son stood by and defended that little boy until the left for high school and went to different schools, he still sees him and they get together.

Yes some people will not get on with others, and yes avoiding is the best way to deal with it, there is no need to be nasty

desperatenotstupid · 26/02/2012 21:14

goodasgold you are absolutely right to tell your child to avoid a child who annoys her. I do the same with my DD as one of her friends is bossy to her and often upsets her, i just tell her to tell this girl when she is being that way "i dont want to play with you today becuse you are bein bossy" I do not however encourage her to be part of a group of children and ostracise the annoying child. That is why what the OP is encouraging is bullying because its a group of children telling his boy to go home (i bet they dont use those words!) or running and hiding from him. THAT is bullying, plain and simple.

Whatmeworry · 26/02/2012 21:15

So it would be better if we behaved as children do when not guided by us?

I think it's a good idea to tell your kids to be polite and considerate, but that doesn't mean they have to put up with crap from someone else just so that someone else gets their own way.

Besides, if you can't get adults to put up with PITA people, you are smoking something if you think kids will.

And I also don't think it's bullying per se if a bunch of kids who get along just fine don't like to play with a kid who is a PITA.

desperatenotstupid · 26/02/2012 21:16

Rabid so you should be proud to :) You little lad was very brave to stand up to the rest of the class like that.

Original poster
crje · 26/02/2012 21:19

We all get on and interact almost daily with each other,we all take turns to walk the kids to school when the weather is fine.The kids are on the street because its a very safe cul de sac in a small village-these are not 'street kids'they are kids who play in the street.

Bit more backround-The differance with the mom that I speak of is her 'blind eye' to her kids faults. If the kids are out and she is there she never checks her kids bad behaviour. Ive brough my son in for bad behaviour to any of the kids and taken away privileges as have the other mams.She does not. She has a younger son(3.5) who knocks over/hits the younger ones and she does a good job of pretending not to see.....my 2yr old cries when she sees him coming. She just stands chatting like its not happening while dd is crying in my arms......she is lovely but makes it hard to enjoy seing them coming.

My title was to draw attention - the problem is how to manage the frustration that happens when this boy won't compromise when they play ,it makes including him without changing the game impossible.......

Can some of ye take a breath.............its frustration on my part that maybe comes across in my posts not a cruel streak at all. Ive no problem in admitting that my ds and a few of the lads are not in the right during these episodes but im just not sure they are wrong either.......

Thinks for the imput.

OP posts: