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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To leave MumsNet because it's becoming RadFeministNet?

999 replies

SigmundaFraudina · 21/02/2012 17:56

Had enough of their agenda being forced down my throat whether I want it or not. Major recruitment drive going on lately, and serious opression of other posters views. Just gets worse and worse. This was not what I believed MN was supposed to be about.

I'm off.

OP posts:
LineRunner · 22/02/2012 10:04

I went to a Stop the Traffik event at a local college and during one discussion the participants were asked to replace the expression 'forced into prostition' with 'enslaved and repeatedly raped'. It was extremely powerful.

Discourse itself has power to change the way we think and behave.

seeker · 22/02/2012 10:05

Sigmundafreud- I've just been to look at the Hwrrogate thread- I really don't think it's that feminists have ignored the poster you mention- I think it's that the tread has moved on very quickly because of a particular pro LDC poster and she slid off the bottom of the page before most other posters noticed her.

Hullygully · 22/02/2012 10:06

SGM - I agree with your post, but it isn't what I meant.

I meant that women self-identify as feminists, but have views on eg vaccinations, so that when they are told their views are rape-apologist or not-feminist, it is felt more personally than to have a view on the triple vaccine.

I am not talking about personal stories.

BIWI · 22/02/2012 10:06

Well everyone else posts on the AIBU board - why shouldn't the feminists?

Hullygully · 22/02/2012 10:08

Anyone should post anything anywhere.

With the corollary that they might get flak.

seeker · 22/02/2012 10:08

"When somebody tells you that they are feeling a certain way from something you post, you can either go back and see where they''re coming from, to understand, meet in the middle, etc. - or you can just categorically tell them that they're wrong, end of discussion, with a bit of namecalling for good measure."

But why is it only feminists who have to do this? (disclaimer- I have told people they were wrong because, frankly, they were. But I have ever name called).

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 22/02/2012 10:09

I dunno, BIWI, perhaps because the AIBU posters don't post 'bun-fighty' nonsense stuff on the feminism board?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 22/02/2012 10:15

Hully... Perhaps MNHQ could just have the one board then? MASSIVE trafic for everything, win/win!

seeker... I didn't say that it was peculiar to feminism board but then again, there are some there who think nothing of namecalling other women. It's not on. MN is not the feminism oracle and you (general) don't have to run with the group to be a feminist. Diversity of views is expected and respect - or should be.

seeker · 22/02/2012 10:15

What sort of "bun-fighty nonsense stuff" do feminists post?

runningforthebusinheels · 22/02/2012 10:17

Well, the op has posted bunfighty nonsense on FWR. Then goes off in a strop when they don't agree with her. It passes the time I suppose.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 22/02/2012 10:18

seeker, I meant that the AIBU posters post bun-fighty stuff - but not on the feminism board. I think most posters recognise that it's a board for serious discussion and that many posters will not 'fit in' there so they leave it alone.

JerichoStarQuilt · 22/02/2012 10:18

But hully, as an ideology, feminism is involved in defining what women are. That's not the only thing it does, but in order to have feminism, you have to start from the premise that women are such-and-such (equal to men, full human beings, etc. etc.). So inevitably, if we talk about feminism, we are going to be talking about how to define something that is an identity for all of us.

I don't see how you would avoid that.

When someone is telling me things that undermine my understanding of what a woman is, that's surely at least as big an attack on identity as doubting someone's identity as a feminist?

I'm not saying one side or other is always right or even that the same posters are always on the same side of that debate, but the debate is always goign to come down to one about identity IMO.

Hullygully · 22/02/2012 10:18

"Respect" is an interesting one, Lying.

I cannot respect these opinions:

There is a God (of any flavour)
There are ever any mitigating factors for rape
Black people are a bit thick and should go home
etc

I don't agree with respecting views that are plainly silly. But you can still treat the person with PARD and attempt to lead them into the goodly light rather than making them defensive and backing off whilst challenging their view.

SigmundFraude · 22/02/2012 10:20

'Sigmunda, that makes no sense. When you say 'end of discussion' - do you mean feminists get off the net, come over to your house, and gag you to prevent you from ever discussing the topic further? Or just that - shock horror - after putting a view forward once they get bored and don't want to engage further?'

I mean end of discussion in that feminists are rigid in their views and will not take on board other opinions.

The relationships thread that everyone keeps banging on about was an absolute disgrace. It was basically, OP's DP went to a lap dancing club? Clearly he hates women. Punish him. Never mind the fact that the OP herself said he was a good man generally.

StewieGriffinsMom · 22/02/2012 10:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 22/02/2012 10:22

" MN is not the feminism oracle and you (general) don't have to run with the group to be a feminist. Diversity of views is expected and respect - or should be"

But the are certain basic things you have to believe in order to call yourself a feminist. And if you don't hold those views you are not a feminist. And diversity of views is fine- but does that mean that all views have to be given equal weight and respect? For example, I wouldn't have to be a feminist to object to the widely held belief that some women must take at least part of the blame for being raped. And I have no intention of respecting the view of anyone who thinks that. And loads of people on here do. And if I see them saying it I will shoot them down in flames. Are you saying I shouldn't- I should respect their right to think that?

Nyac · 22/02/2012 10:24

Catgirl, SigmundFraudina who started this thread was arguing on the Amsterdam thread that paying for sex shouldn't be criminalised, in other words that it shoudl be legal for men to buy women's bodies. I don't know why you're claiming it didn't happen, it did.

JerichoStarQuilt · 22/02/2012 10:24

SF - why on earth should they not be rigid in their views, though? Confused

It's a great shame when you disagree but sadly some people do have rigid, strongly held views.

For example, hully and I evidently disagree about the existence of God. It's unlikely we'll bother to try finding common ground, but it doesn't mean I have to whine about her rigid anti-God views or that she has to follow me around pestering me to justify why I do believe (she's welcome to, of course, I just think it will be more boring for her than for me).

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 22/02/2012 10:26

Hully... You may not agree with those opinions - or have personal respect for them - but you would of the poster. I've never seen a post from you that would really cause offence to somebody, they might feel a bit silly with a spot of introspective review, but not defeated. ^^

There are ways and means of communicating - I've had some of my quite fixed opinions changed forever, but never by somebody who belittles or harragues. I suppose it depends what the objective is... to closet oneself into a group of same-minded individuals, roaring at different opinions - however daft/ill-conceived/ignorant they may be - or to engage in a way that makes people think, not shrink away.

I feel that way anyway.

Hullygully · 22/02/2012 10:27

Jericho - what I am interested in essentially is how to welcome more people to the party, and figuring out what makes them leave.

When I were a yoof I was good friends with a much older man and I watched him talk to people and never forgot. We were in sarf London so conversations would go like this:

"Them coons should fuck off back home. They are all muggers." (Barely an exaggeration)

Friend: "Yes, I know what you mean." Pause. "Funny though, isn't it, because if you think about it blah blah."

By the end their opinions would reverse. It was much more effective than shouting You are a RACIST CUNT.

Nyac · 22/02/2012 10:28

"I mean end of discussion in that feminists are rigid in their views and will not take on board other opinions."

Which opinions in particular do you think we should take on board? Did you take on board any of the opinions that were put to you by feminists on the Amsterdam thread, or did you get pissed off that people were disagreeing with you and start this thread to flounce Sigmund.

One of the key things that continually gets missed in these discussions is that feminists object to misogyny and sexism and support women who stand up to those thing. The OP in the Amsterdam was standing up to a group of sexist men in her workplace, and wondering just how far their misogyny stretched. She got an extremely hard time for it, a much harder time than the disagreement you faced Sigmund. However she hasn't started a flounce thread or had a go at a whole group of other Mumsnetters.

SardineQueen · 22/02/2012 10:29

People often post bun-fighty nonsense stuff on the feminism board.

There are many people who take great delight in baiting feminists.

Hullygully · 22/02/2012 10:30

sgm - do you mean that on the FWR boards that personal experience has led the women to where they are politically (as with the mmr)?

seeker · 22/02/2012 10:31

"The relationships thread that everyone keeps banging on about was an absolute disgrace. It was basically, OP's DP went to a lap dancing club? Clearly he hates women. Punish him. Never mind the fact that the OP herself said he was a good man generally."

Actually, as a point of order, the massive debate about this place on a thread I started on the back of that thread in relationships. I started it specifically because I don't want to turn the poster's personal experience into a political bun fight.

AbsofCroissant · 22/02/2012 10:31

I was agreeing with you there Hully, particularly on the bit about when you disagree with someone and it (mostly inadvertently) is an attack on who they are.

But then with this, " cannot respect these opinions:

There is a God (of any flavour)"

you lost me. That's just barking