To leave MumsNet because it's becoming RadFeministNet?

[SigmundaFraudina]

Had enough of their agenda being forced down my throat whether I want it or not. Major recruitment drive going on lately, and serious opression of other posters views. Just gets worse and worse. This was not what I believed MN was supposed to be about.

I'm off.

There a few threads at the moment with posters screaming about women's rights to be part of the sex industry, or to be publicly in denial about DV, but yet strangely if I (or another MNetter) posts with a view that doesn't conform to this, we are told by those same posters what we should and shouldn't be thinking, feeling or doing.

And they don't see the hypocrisy.

I haven't been on those threads ergo - i suppose my view is more valid or somethng?

Nyac

I wasn''t refering to post where the person said "The OP has no right to know what her co-workers do in their spare time, and I know a happy hooker and its ok and / or I think brothels should be legalised"

I am refering to posts where people simply said "The OP has no right to know what her co-workers do in their spare time"

Which some posters decided meant they were supporting the sex industry. Which doesn't really show a very good grasp of reasoning and is very frustrating.

I think a lot of posters and threads would benefit from a heightened awareness that this is a site for the expression of opinions, and that opinions are allowed - encouraged, no less! - and that it's actually normal for opinions to be debated.

However, it is not the feminists who have dumped debate in favour of puerile aggression.

At the moment there seem to be a number of threads asking for the opinion or advice of 'the MN jury' or for 'the wisdom of MN', which then, apparently inexplicably, have descended into deliberately abusive statements. I mean, telling another poster who has offered advice to 'Fuck off' is pretty unequivocally unpleasant and ignorant.

Sorry that's not a response to you catgirl! It looks like a non sequitur...

Oh come off it some people on here have obviously never been on a thread inhabited by people of a different political persuasion to themselves! Or a benefits thread or a breast / bottle thread or a disabled toilets thread... Loads of topics where people shout at each other.

Didnt take it that way LineRunner :)

Am off to work now.

I also dont think feminisim has dumped debate in favour of aggression. I think a couple of posters have on both sides of the debate. I dont think they are representative of anyone but themselves

Vaccinations

Religion to get into schools
Driving giant cars
Endless list

SardineQueen, Fair point, there are lots lots of shouty threads in AIBU. I suppose I tend to avoid those threads because, to be frank, they do nothing for me.

Not everything is a matter of opinion. To tqke two examples. It is a fact that the sex industry exploits women. This does not necessarily mean that every individual woman working in the sex industry is personally exploited, but women as a gender are exploited and damaged by the sex industry. It is a fact that women are nor responsible for men's behaviour. Specifically, women are not responsible if a man hits or rapes her.

These are not opinions- they are facts. And no amount of open mindedness can make them anything but facts.

Agree with that, seeker. And I have really valued finding MN and being able to come onto this site to debate the significance of the available evidence.

What frustrates me is the idea that feminists are stifling that debate. It's the feminists by and large who have the facts that make the debate worth having in the first place.

All you've done with this thread, OP, is create another platform.

Platform for what?

I wonder if when the topic under debate is one ascribed the label "feminist," it is felt much more personally than eg vaccinations which could be argued to be gender free. This may be why it provokes such feelings of hurt on the part of those who feel misunderstood and then scorned as it is felt to be striking at their identity rather than their view.

For yet more discussion on feminism, seeker, on AIBU.

So do you think there should be no discussions with a feminist perspective anywhere but on "Feminism"?

I do find this odd. Why are people so scared of the idea that feminist thinking affect all areas of our lives?

Feminists just do not listen to others points of view, why do you keep saying that they do?. Take the Harrogate thread on FWR right now. One poster said..

'Hello, appreciate your concern for the feminist cause (I really do I'm not being facetious) however I work part time in this club and rely on the wages to bolster my income for my family - they are not bad employees, and I've had much much worse jobs. So please think of the women that rely on this income and don't try and shut it down.'

And was largely ignored, apart from...

'Is there nowhere else in Harrogate you could find paid work then, not a single place?'

No, opening of the debate, no listening to her views, no 'oh maybe not all strippers are abused then'.

Because, disguised behind the endless rhetoric, essentially this is the conversation.

Fem: Brothels, LDC etc are bad news.

Other: I know, maybe if they were legalised there would be more security for sex workers.

Fem: No, all brothels/LDC need to be shut down.

Other: Would feel happier with brothels/LDC if the vast majority of women chose and were happy to be there?

Fem: No. Men will still be objectifying those women.

Other: What? ALL men.

Fem: Yes. All men who go to brothels/LDC/watch porn hate women.

Other: What ALL of them?

Fem: Yes, all of them.

End of 'discussion'.

Black and white, no room for manouvre, nada.

I don't think all men who go to LdCs/brothels/watch porn hate women. I think the either dispise women or just haven't thought about it very clearly.

Amsterdam thread? Is that the one last week that devolved into a bunfight over whether statistics could be applied to individuals, and a claim that no stag party could visit Amsterdam without participating in the exploitation of women?

Or has there been another thread?

I think we have to remember it's a discussion board and people will bring different life views and experiences.

Having supported a cloe friend through a terrible false rape allegation, I must admit I do find it very hard to read some of the recent threads around rape, because I am lucky enough to have no experience of rape or sexual assault and horrific experiences of how evil some women can be. So I choose not to read the thread because I know I'm going to get angry when I read blanket statements, so I just remember that those women are posting based on their own life experiences.

Likewise my experience of knowing several prostitutes is different from the majority of posters, but I am aware that there are many women who are trafficked and/or forced into prostitution, they have not chosen it. So again, we are looking at life from our own viewpoint and therefore won't always agree.

It's just an internet forum.

Great post SGM.

Seeker, I agree. It is so NORMALISED to watch porn/go to strip clubs etc, that even if a bloke didn't do it himself, I'd been surprised that he would strongly judge anyone that did.

seeker... I think the discussions belong on the feminism board, yes. Anywhere else and a bun-fight ensues. I think many women embrace feminist ideals on a daily basis, they just don't want to get involved in the arguments and stultifying responses on MN. There's no shame in that.

When somebody tells you that they are feeling a certain way from something you post, you can either go back and see where they''re coming from, to understand, meet in the middle, etc. - or you can just categorically tell them that they're wrong, end of discussion, with a bit of namecalling for good measure.

There's a reason why MNHQ allocated a feminism board - it was at the request of the posters who wanted to use it and, as far as I know, they do.

Sigmunda, that makes no sense. When you say 'end of discussion' - do you mean feminists get off the net, come over to your house, and gag you to prevent you from ever discussing the topic further? Or just that - shock horror - after putting a view forward once they get bored and don't want to engage further?

You can't legislate against boredom. It's like seeker says - this is a written medium. One of the downsides is that you can't always control where the discussion goes and when people decide to stop, talk about something else, or repeat a point that seems boring to you.