Does any one actually know kids like this?

[westcoastnortherner]

Yes, Yes I know it's a Daily Mail article, but are there really that many kids like this out there?!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101292/They-wear-nappies-drink-cola--dont-know-open-book-One-teachers-terrifying-insight-5-year-olds-failed-parents.html#comments

I've heard it claimed that modern nappies are so effective that they slow children's potty readiness. The idea being that in a modern nappy a child who has done a wee doesn't feel it and isn't uncomfortable, so they're much slower to learn to recognise when they've done a wee, slower to become aware of when they're about to wee, and have much less incentive than previously to leave nappies.

No idea but it sounds plausible.

Yes many more did go to them. I worked with kids with disabilities when younger including linking in with special schools. I would be very surprised if toileting issues would lead to a kid going to a special school in the past. My memory - while not infallible - is of lots of kids with pretty obvious disabilities. Toileting was often an issue, but were kids had "hidden" disabilities like autism, it was pretty obvious the kids had a clear disability e.g. non verbal, odd behaviour, etc.

I honestly think if it was just toileting issues and been seen as a bit odd, they would not have been offered a place at a special school. But accept I may be wrong.

halcyon - they "decided" he did when he was about 3 years old because he is shy and less outgoing than his brother. Now he is 13 and refusing to go to school (he did get beaten up) and is certainly socially awkward, but to my mind shy and socially awkward are not a medical condition

He hasnt been diagnosed - they have been fighting to get him diagnosed for years and this is what I dont understand. I think perhaps he does have issues now but they are down to being told there is something wrong with him and treated differently IYSWIM?

No being shy and socially awkkward are not medical conditions. I think in a way we expect such conformity from kids these days and any that are odd or different in some way are seen by some as having an sn of some kind. Surely kids and adults can just be odd or different?

"There were more special schools around years ago, there are now many pupils in mainstream who would have previously gone to special schools"

There have been new laws added "Special Educational Needs and disability acts", as well as inclusion policies, that is why more SN children are in main stream schools.

If a toileting issue was seen as connected to a wider "problem" or possibly medical, then a SEN school could have been suggested. Those with disabilities were as isolated as possible.

BirdsGottafly : you've made me flashback, there was a boy at DC school who I presumed had SN & I even got flamed about it on MN because I said I was uncomfortable interacting with him.

I couldn't pin down what was wrong with his interaction other than what I presumed was some aspect of his SN: I later discoverd that he didn't have SN at all (family friend informant), but had been subject to horrible neglect as a baby/tot. And what I felt so uncomfortable with was, I realise in retrospect, enormous continuing unmet emotional needs. Which he probably radiated like plutonium if I had known what to look for. A child who hadn't been given proper love :(. He was from a large brood of children by the same incapable mother, who subsequently lost custody of the entire lot.

Have never met anyone who sought a diagnosis when there were no genuine issues.
In my experience people recoil from the very idea that their child may have problems. There have been loads of threads on here where people become aggressive and upset at e en the suggestion that their Childs issue may be indicative of an sn
Getting a diagnosis is bloody difficult. My son has severe autism and I still had two Doctors suggest he simply needed to get more social experience.
A family contact has just been diagnosed at age 33. My family had no idea. To me it was bloody obvious.

Without doubt one of the most difficult thing during my fight to get a diagnosis and therefore some support for my ds was the number of relatives saying 'but he seems fine'.

"Surely kids and adults can just be odd or different?"

There will be a reason as to why the child is "odd" though, whether it be environmental or organic, the earlier the reason is found, the better, so directed support can be put in place.

Otherwise another generation slips through the net, until they have children.

Pag I'm sorry I am sure that was really difficult

I think my MIL is pretty unusual in that she does want people to have things wrong with them

She had DH on anti-ds as a child and convinced he had depression as an adult (he did but it was a learnt behaviour)

mind you, she also had him exorcised when he was little

Why does there have to be a reason though? Can't we just accept that not everyone is the same? I'm not talking about kids/adults with real sn, I am just not convinced that being odd is automatically a negative thing.

I can think of a few friends I have who are odd or eccentric. They manage fine, but would probably now if they were kids be labelled in some way.

And tbh if parents are told via forums like this that any odd behaviour is probably a sign of an sn, then yes they may push for a diagnosis. And I see all the time on here parents posting about behaviour and somebody saying - sounds like your dc has an sn. It is as common a response as leave your dp.

If you are just a bit odd, but managing fine, then you wouldn't usually need a diagnosis. If your child is just a bit shy or has a few quirks then they would be unlikely to be diagnosed with anything. But if a child is struggling or unhappy in their home or school life because of it, then a diagnosis may be useful as support can be accessed. And there are strict criteria that have to met before you would be given a diagnosis of autism.

There doesn't have to be a reason Lesley - except that if a child has a condition than can be actively helped through therapy or education or even through the simple awareness of how their issues manifest themselves it can massively improve their lives.

Aspergers often results in suicide. The frusta person I ever knew who had aspergers (it wasn't diagnosed back ten but it is obvious now looking back) wa at school with me and committed suicide in their late twenties.
My sons diagnosis allowed me to get active help in interacting with him that helped enormously.
His life is better. That's the point.

The parents can push all they want, if it isn't a real condition the doctors will not diagnose it as one.

Doctors/psychiatrist/psycologists want to advance their knowledge that is why they seek reasons. No different than finding out that women don't shrink as a by product of old age, there is a physical reason that can be put right.

Most doctors go into the field to advance human life, if they want to do the research they should, they know what they are talking about, will all due respect, very few on here do, to that extent.

Do you think medical advancement should stop? Why shouldn't we seek to make life better for those with MH/SN/Psychological conditions.

She had him exorcised, catgirl? Strewth.

Maybe she could run the Daily Mail's 'all kids are devils' campaign.

They are now home schooling my DN through some sort of internet based thing. I just cant imagine how that will help him get over his social problems

It just seems sad as I think a lot of these problems have been created. I am not for a minute saying that is the same for anyone else, but in his case it seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy if that makes sense.

Having been involved with diagnosing children with AS/ASD for a number of years, anyone who seriously thinks that it's easy to get a diagnosis now or that it is given just because a child is "a bit odd" is frankly talking out of their arse.

Ony a minority of children with Asperger's Syndrome will go to school wearing nappies so it's a bit of a non-issue in the context of this discussion really, but of course, bring up apparent "overdiagnosis" of AS/ASD/ADHD by all means just because SN has been mentioned.

There is a massive body of research on AS too. Don't let that stop you feeling you know more than people who have, live with, work with or study the condition on the basis that you've read a few DM articles or seen it mentioned online more frequently than you would have expected to when you joined.

LineRunner she really did. He was possessed with a demon obviously - not just a bit upset because his dad had walked out :(

She and I have an erm, interesting relationship at times :)

birds I think the fact they have been fighting tooth and nail to get him diagnosed for years perhaps suggests he doesn't have Aspergers (although I appreciate dx can be difficult to get when there are genuine SN issue too)

working - that is a little patronising.

It's like those with Cerebal Palsy, who was once thought of a "vegatables", we now know that CP does not always carry a LD within the condition, when you think back to how we have treated CP sufferers, it was evil what we did to fully mentally functioning people (as well as less functioning,of course).

Look how far therapy has come for most conditions.

Catgirl- in a way you are proving my point that some of the delayed development being on the rise is due to environmental factors. That is what is being found when the child starts schools or goes into foster care.

Catgirl, I don't really care if it is.

I have seen the damage caused to people's families by unsupportive family members who "decide" that a child doesn't have AS because they can't see anything "different" about them. Unfortunately, I've even seen it in my own family with my cousin (with schizoaffective disorder) and a second cousin with clear AS and severe depression who the entire family delights in believing just didn't have "enough boundaries".

In nearly 12 years of practice, I have met about two families that I would say were "pushing for a diagnosis" when there was no apparent reason for one. I would also say both of those had other significant MH needs within the family that made them quite vulnerable. Typical parents with typical children do not "chase" diagnoses. There have been many children I have seen over the years who didn't get diagnoses of AS because actually, testing and the diagnostic process showed other difficulties were present that were presenting in a way that parents believed were AS/ASD e.g. learning difficulties, language disorders, mental health disorders etc.

Oh I totally agree environmental factors play a huge part in a childs development - I have never disputed that.

Is it generally accepted then that ASDs can be caused by environmental factors? And if that is the case does / can changing the childs environment "cure" the syptoms?

(again I am asking from genuine interest)

working - I have seen the damage done to this child by people who have "decided" that he does have AS.

No ASD is a condition, but a child can appear to have SN when it is really emotional damage/neglect.

Envirnmental factors can disable a child for life, Micheal Rutters research into the Romanian children left in cots was a big part of evidence gathering for that theory.

The environment given to a child with any condition can make a huge difference. So if your child is struggling with speech it is more important to get weaning and chewing right because they cannot catch up in the same way that a child with no "problems" can.