Does any one actually know kids like this?

[westcoastnortherner]

Yes, Yes I know it's a Daily Mail article, but are there really that many kids like this out there?!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101292/They-wear-nappies-drink-cola--dont-know-open-book-One-teachers-terrifying-insight-5-year-olds-failed-parents.html#comments

My DCs couldn't either. But it wasn't expected ime that dcs would be able to do this before starting school. All the other stuff was expected though. I vaguely remember getting a letter before my oldest dc started school listing all the things a dc was expected to be able to do before starting school. It was all stuff like dress themselves, use the loo, hang up their coat on coat hook, etc.

I know of two children that have both had to to have 8 teeth removed. One was three, once was 4. That's in the past 18 months.

I know of another mum who tips her bottle of coke into her child's mouth as the child is too young to hold it herself. Her children never receive regular meals. they just eat junk throughout the day. Her boast of how well her children eat 'x can eat a whole packet of custard creams to hersefl'.

There are children who in my daughter's nursery who still suck dummies.

Another mum constantly blames the teachers for her daughters appalling behaviour and and thinks nothing of slapping her kids in front of everyone else queing for nursery, that includes the children. Which is difficult when most of the children are taught hitting is wrong.

A mum was late for breakfast club and told her two children, in front of the nursery queue, that they would have to wait till lunch now. Poor kids didn't even looked shocked or upset, just like that was normal.

I know the nursery teacher has had to have words with a different mum about the time he spends on the X Box as he keeps running around the class pretending to shoot the other children. He is 3. The mum said to me that she doesn't know what she is meant to do as he is addicted to the X Box, but she does sometimes ban him from it as a punishment - he is 3fgs!!

None of the article is too far from what I know.

dd1 cannot however, get the hang of her zip, and starts reception in september.

I am now worried about that

LeQ. I spent HOURS working with DD and DS2 on personal care before they started school. DS2 it was a HUGE issue for - how do you teach a dc that only started to WALK at 3.7yo to dress and undress themselves properly by 4.5yo?

He just didn't have the fine motor control necessary without an extra year of physio and OT exercises both at home AND at school.

OK, maybe I was 'lucky' not to be judged on this, for two reasons - 1) His SN were diagnosed long before he was school-age, and 2) Because his older brother, just 18 months older, was reading, writing, counting to 100 and doing his times tables, dressing/undressing himself, toiletting himself, using a knofe and fork properly BEFORE he went to school, in fact met every one of the EYFS targets before he left PRE-SCHOOL. So they KNEW at the school that it wasn't down to my parenting.

However, with my first dc - who incidentally has a lot of the same SN as DS2, plus some extra on top, EVERYONE thought it was down to my parenting to start with, as there had been no evidence to the contrary. And by god was I judged! UNTIL DS1 was shown to be MORE than capable, and my parenting skills were shown on an NT dc to be perfectly adequate, no-one was even interested in helping me to GET a diagnosis for DD.

Hunty, you can't stop other parents judging you - god knows MN is a classic example of that!

Most professionals you come into contact with can tell the difference between an engage parent with a child who has problems and a parent who isn't taking care of their child. As I said in an earlier post, it's the difference between children who are always late for school, not well dressed and washed, don't understand and try and participate. The physical tasks eg motor skills things, not all children reach at the same time. The milestones are there to spot ones who may have SN and also ones which aren't being parented properly but there is a world of difference.

I wouldn't worry if your child can't do a zip or isn't too good with a knife. Do they know what they are for? Are they being given a chance to try? That's what matters. As for shoelaces, I didn't teach my kids till they were a lot older, tbh it's not something I worry about.

Please let's try to keep perspective - we are talking about children with all round crap lives, not loved and cared for children who have SN or who don't quite make a milestone.

Oh Hunty didn't mean you don't have perspective - just in case it read that way!!

My dd's school had a big notice outside the reception class asking for spare pairs of knickers and pants for the reception children that have accidents.
When she was in reception nobody ever wet themselves or only very occasionally had an accident. I was just wondering then why suddenly the reception kids now have accidents at school.
Also she was toilet trained at 2 but now it seems to be 3 or 4 that most children are trained. I'm not slating anyone here but just an observation.
I also have a 10 month old baby so it will be interesting to see what happens with her.

Posters don't seem to realise that SW's and teachers are not kept in cupboards and only brought out to work.

We have been raised by humans and mix with other humans (and their children).

Most of us have our own children, some who have additional needs etc. We are trained to know about SN's, we know the "system" backwards, re slow and time taking diagnosis, you always apply the benefit of doubt, but when the child is in school for a couple of weeks and manages to reach their milestones, you then know hat it has been environmental factors that have caused delayed development.

If not challanged, they go on. I have met 8 year olds that have slipped through the net and do not toilet properly or eat and drink how they should. Within three months of invovement these children are turned around.

As i said i have met three year olds who are fed by the parent spooning the food into their mouths from a baby jar, or prepared cottage pie etc.

They are never offered a cup, but fed from bottles. The parents don't attemt to teach them anything.

I undestand that most "normal" people wll look for reasons becaue it doesn't make sense to do this to your child (this is a theme in the adults of abusive parents in relationships at the moment), but this level of neglect is going on and it needs highlighting to gain support to save Children's Centres, Surestart etc.

DS4 can do some zips and not others.

DS12 cannot tie shoelaces because he's got a mental block about it. I think mental blocks are more of a hinderance than anything else.

ragged- the children that i see don't often have shoes, the parent buys them when the child starts school, before that they are not taken out.

I don't like to give information but i have had a nearly two year old on my books who live on Kabab meat, super noodles or mince and mash, that was it. He was non verbal and never taken out (i suspect that he was left on his own whilst the parent went to the shop). His muscles hadn't formed because he was either in his cot or strapped in wherever he was sat (in front of the television). He was given bottles, also. He appeared to have SN, it turned out to be purely environmental.

It is a shame that SS cannot open up files for public release, SW and teachers are not making this up for fun. I have said on other threads we see conditions that should not exsist outside of Bangladesh (or similar places).

I can understand why people don't want tothinkabout what might be happening in their own street but that doesn't help the children caught up in these lives.

I am NOT saying that ALL these children have udiagnosed SN - just that SOME of them WILL have.

And those parents of the dc that DO have undiagnosed SN's will still be getting judged by that teacher. It doesn't make it any better when those teachers talk to you 3 years later to apologise for having their judgy-knickers wedged so far up their behinds that they find it difficult to walk. They still judged you and made you feel like a shit parent AT THE TIME. As I said to the teacher who apologised for blaming me for DD's issues when it was now apparent that they were due solely to her SN - she could stick her apology up her own arse sideways!!

And I am in NO WAY denying that there is ALSO cases of neglect that can cause issues too. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I am merely trying to make the point that SOME of these dc WILL have undiagnosed SN, and their parents WILL be getting judged by the teachers, which makes me .

I DID also say to that teacher that I hoped that in future, maybe she should think twice about refusing to support a child who has issues, when it JUST MIGHT be possible that they could have an undiagnosed SN...

Hunty- the children in the article don't, this is based on them responding to the school toilet training them etc. We are talking about the childen whoend up on "plans" that we know don't have SN, it is environment, that would be 40% if intervention wasn't as it is.

We need the services that are proposed to be cut, for these children.

This is aside from the teachers judging. Although i have the job that i have i have been judged, my eldest is 26, it was still acceptable for a teacher to say that they didn't believe in SN. That is a matter of changing teacher training.

But the very POINT of my posts is that SN's often AREN'T diagnosed before school-age. So how would people KNOW if it was through undiagnosed SN's, or neglect, through a 2-second snippet in a newspaper?

My stepkids drink coke at their mums constantly and can eat sweets on demand. I don't think they are cleaning their teeth properly either as DSS has about 8 fillings and DSD's new teeth are already a brownish colour (she is only 7).

We have tried and tried to talk to their Mum about it but just get told to but out. When they are at mine I drum it into them to clean their teeth and they aren't allowed fizzy drinks but what can we do when we only see them every other week and they go straight back to the bad habits when they go home.
It breaks our hearts.
She feeds them junk all the time too and I think DSS is quite overweight. Again, we get told to mind our own business if we mention that.
Some parents shouldn't be allowed to have children.

Horrible article that mixes up all sorts of complex, and in many cases unrelated, issues. Trust the DM to approach a complex subject with the perfect mix of ignorance and contempt

The vast majority of children with multiple developmental issues brought about by environment, rather than diagnosable SN, live in poverty. End of.

It's a pity that there are no secondary school mentors on here at present. The mentors that i work with take clean uniform/underwear for children to change into and sanitory/hygeine basics, so at least the child is not bullied for not being clean.

I don't think people realise how hard dedicated workers are working to try to improve life for some children.

These children attend work groups that give them hygeine packs because the parents won't meet the childs needs.

Most cities have youth groups that have showers and washing machines so that children can get clean. This is a real way of life for some.

Hunty- because of the improvement once the child is at school and a CAF is put in place which sometimes then has to go to a plan. Once SS are involved appointments are given to check everything out,these are often not taken upby parents.

As i have said previously, so i appologise, but i would have loved someone topush through my DD's SALT appointments, the way that i have done for others, only for the appointment not to be taken up.

I would have bitten the offerers hand off for the services that i put in place for families, but they don't bother with.

Don't get me wrong i don't agree with the way that this has been put across by the DM, it is to suit an agenda. But i do think that a good proportion of the population are unaware as to how life is for some children. It is a subject that needs public awareness.

My son is 4 and goes to a private nursery. For quite a few of the children, chocolate is a normal breakfast or no breakfast at all.
However just because my son doesn't have chocolate for breakfast doesn't mean he can do everything else lol. He can't read (is he meant to by now?), quite often still mixes his numbers up,although he can write his own name and a couple of other words though.

I second those who say that some children just develop or become dependent quicker than others. I dont know any children like this but judging by the posters my DD 3.7 is looking like being a bit behind and like littlemisssarcastic I am starting to get worried. She is;

• Trained during day, no accidents but in nappies at night
• Is pretty poor at pulling pants all the way down and wiping bottom
• Only just learned how to put on velcro shoe.
• Can put on cardis but struggles with anything else
• Can count to 20
• Knows all her colours but gets confused by days of the week.
• Can feed herself with a spoon but not a fork, and certainly not a knife

However I do tend to rush and probably dont spend enough time showing her things - she is a difficult child to show in that she always wants to do things her way but at the end of the day, thats up to me to remedy.

for waht it is worth, snapsnap, that sounds pretty average for 3.7, counting to 20 is good, not using fork maybe a bit slow, but not out of ordinary,
just had playdate and lunch with 6 and seven year olds, all could use the cutlery, but large variation in manners -