To think it is about time to stop being a Christian country.

[ShagOBite]

On the council prayers debate, lots of people have said "but we're a Christian country". Why are we? Should we be? How do we go about changing this? It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.

Remove Christianity and you leave a gap for someone else to fill. Enlightened rationalism, anyone? I am being facetious but why do we need the country to have a religion. Can't we just have our own religions (or lack thereof) and go about our business?

Popcorn I don't think there would be a gap, the churches would all still exist, the Synagogues would still exist, the Mosques would still exist. Everyone that currently worships anywhere could still worship. Where is the gap

C of E may be symbolically state religion, but in all honesty what % of the population are practicing Christians. I don't mean using church for christening, marriage and funerals. That's like hiring out a hall for events. Britain would more correctly be described as a post protestant society.

Sorry, left off my '?'

Ooh, that's pretty cool.

Me too, Heady

BoldieGoldie Couldn't agree more.

But is religion foisted on us by the state? Do you really feel that in everyday life? Would you even know whether they had prayers in their agenda? And would you really give a flying fuck? Honestly?

Also you have to remember that most councillors of this ilk are boring middleclass busy bodies who try and tell you how many flowers you can plant and whether or not you can have a snowman on the street.

Worship in schools... Yes, it is foisted upon us.

I know. Regretting the link. Lazy google.

The census data is worth nothing. According to the church's own statistics only about 23% regularly attend church, regular is defined as once a month. It is widely accepted that people put down "christian" on the census even though they are not - its extremely frustrating as it means debates like this become skewed by inaccurate stats.
Ultimately, we are a secular country by population because the vast majority of our country follow no religion at all.

Whether or not something is part of our "heritage" or is a "tradition" is no reason to keep it forming our laws! It can remain part of our heritage without having our policy formed around it. Similarly you can keep the "values" without having religion as part of the state - we have civilized values but that does not make them exclusively "christian" values, I believe in a lot of the things that christians do, trying to do right by other people, be a good person, not lying etc etc, but rather crucially - I don't believe in God and there are other Christian values I do not hold, values of women being given equal opportunity to lead, homosexuals having equal rights to marriage etc. But I can still maintain those values regardless.

The state should not reflect religious values; it should create a society in which everyone is free to follow the religion that they choose. There is no reason why as an atheist I should have limits placed on the ethics of my fertility treatments, access to abortion or even contraception, right to marry as a homosexual etc by the views of one specific religion. We should not reflect one religious view above all others as it imposes religious "rules" on people who do not wish to follow that religion.

Figgy Yes, it was forced upon me at school. The only primary schools anywhere near my village were all CoE, I had no choice but to go to a church school. I got detention for refusing to pray, it was always me and the Jehovah's Witnesses children in detention. If schools were secular that wouldn't have happened.

Religion is foisted on us by the state. We have bishops in the House of Lords basing legislative decisions on their faith.

That's exactly the point Figgy. It is not a good thing to perpetuate this stereotype of local politicians. Middle aged, middle class Christians. We should encourage diversity. (Says not middle aged, yet middle class, atheist councillor)

Figgy - a number of the house of lords are appointed by the church. They are often a barrier to reform.

Mushroom has managed to convey all my thoughts far better than I can, thanks.

'Can't we just have our own religions (or lack thereof) and go about our business?'

We do don't we? Unless I've missed something and that's what you're arguing?

shag - oh, no, sorry, I didn't mean to be rude (but I was!). I'm just not keen on stuff that over-states what we know.

I think it is very likely England was pagan much longer than Christian. I've read that even after the Reformation, there were still isolated communities who, when questioned, clearly weren't Christian and had beliefs that must have come from somewhere.

I think given all the different forms of Christanity that have been State religions would have considered each other to be heresy, it is dubious to say we've been 'Chrstian' in for 1400 years in any meaningful religious sense (I accept it's meaningful culturally and politically).

mushroom does c of e heritage form our laws?

You're lovely, Jericho. :)

the counsellors in my ward do not meet that description, but then the people in general in my ward dont meet that description

AgentZZ Yes, for the most part we all go along with our daily lives and its not really an issue. But as only a small percentage of the country are active christians (praying, attending church etc) then I have a problem with the church leaders playing an influencing part in state decisions and law making. That effects us all.

It would only be foisted if all the schools in the country were CofE, don't see how that can be though as my dd is not at a cofe school so..........if you choose to send your child to a religious school for religious reasons then fine, But it would only be foisted if there were no other choice which there blatantly is.

I know. It's my Christianity wot does it.