To think it is about time to stop being a Christian country.

[ShagOBite]

On the council prayers debate, lots of people have said "but we're a Christian country". Why are we? Should we be? How do we go about changing this? It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.

Of course it's about political power and not honestly held religious beliefs, AgentZigzag. But they would not have got away with it if there weren't people who did have those beliefs. You need the religious public to back your political decisions, and if you say they've religious reasons behind them you can do absolutely whatever you want to. Which is dangerous and why everyone, religious or not, should be pro-secularism.

Ok, since the dark ages this country has been considered to be a Christian country. I think that's pretty far back...

Thanks deadsouls btw - I thought I was being properly pompous so I am chuffed you approve.

YABU. Ordinary, non-fundamentalist Christian values are a good basis for a civilised country.

Fig Of course we are seen by other countries as a christian country, we are a christian country. Our state and our church are linked.

That doesn't mean that they ought to be though.

Also, the census stats thing is a bit of a red herring in my opinion. My dad would always put christian down on a form, but he no more believes in god (a christian version or otherwise) than he does in flying pigs.

Op you may not have joined this country but many things that make up this country and our tradition are based on religion - (and yes I am aware of my history and how the Church of England came about, however I think you will find that there has been "Christianity" in some form or other in this country for a considerable period prior to the Tudor's too).

Don't get me wrong - I don't believe our politics should be ruled by the church or the church by the state but I find it very sad that tradition is wiped out in case you offend one person in a group of 10, as we are referring to in this particular case. you don't see the other 9 taking the 1 to court - that would be seen as bullying wouldn't it or not politically correct.

Well, last Tuesday seems pretty far back to me! But actually, in the history of the country, the Christianity period has been quite short.

"when you say secular, what do you mean? seperation of church and state? or seperation of private faith and religious practice and any public demonstration of faith?"

I, personally, mean just separation of church and state, I have no problem with religion as it is and no problem with people taking part in religious practices both in private and in public. I mean separation of church and state, not oppression of faith.

there is also civil religion to consider, a lot of out traditions such as 11/11 etc are based on civil religion rather then religion.

I'm not sure I know exactly when 'the dark ages' were, but I am pretty sure for periods in history this country has been considered an irreligious/overly secular state. It's all dependent on what 'secular' means in different times.

Besides which, if we're looking to historical precendent, should we also go back to expelling Jewish people (which is a particular nasty bit of our history as a 'Christian country' IMO)>

The minority often needs protecting, Figgy. The wishes of the majority are sometimes quite wrong. Think about the heritage our country has of colonialisation and slavery, for a start.

Shag - now you are just being pedantic, I think 1400 years is a relatively long time.

headyeddie see i have no problem with that too, but some posters compare with france which is secular and you cant have religious symbols such as headscarfs etc in public institutions such as schools, therefore forcing people to make a choice between religious convictions and education and access to public services,

It is a long time. But paganism ruled for longer and it still changed.

ach... just let the Christians carry on believing that this is a christian country. bless them.

shag - I'd put money on you being right, but can you prove it? Isn't 2800 years ago well before we have any concrete evidence of what religion people practiced?

Op, of course the minority need protecting however I think you will find that often everything is geared to pleasing the minority at the detriment of the majority. The politically correct nanny state being part of this.

Nailak But every country has to find their own way. I only mentioned France because AKMD seemed to suggest that to give up the link between state and church would doom us to a future of Nazism, which France proves is not the case.
FWIW I think France are quite harsh with their rules, but then they have never been ones to beat about the bush have they?

Remove Christianity and you leave a gap for someone else to fill. At least we have stability,a CofE which is a "broad church" and a non-fundamentalist background to this country.

nailak - I see your point. I wouldn't want us to be 'secular' in the sense of refusing to allow people to express religious beliefs. I think all teh fuss in France has only kicked off in the last few yearrs and it's very odd.

10000BC according to this, but not being an historian I can't produce actual evience for you.

YANBU OP religion should be a purely personal matter and not foisted on the rest of us by the state.

Any comparison with the French regards their lack of religion should always take into consideration the trouble they had with digging pits big enough to catch all the blood that drained out of the guillotined bodies in the revolution.

A bit of a logistical nightmare by all accounts.

Christianity in this country has changed and grown, unlike some other religions that have remained steadfast in their convictions and not always rightly. If we still remained in the same vein historically then I think we would have a different argument on our hands.