To think it is about time to stop being a Christian country.

[ShagOBite]

On the council prayers debate, lots of people have said "but we're a Christian country". Why are we? Should we be? How do we go about changing this? It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.

Agree with you shag. Too pissed to articulate why, but I do.

'Who said it was a bad thing?'

Ummm...you did in your OP 'It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.'

Heady France is secular after a rather horrible revolution and some even more horrible wars...

Figgy "why should we change being christian?" Thats just it though, 'we' aren't all Christian, far from it. Just because state could be separated from church doesn't have any affect on whether you do/don't consider yourself a christian.

Last census not yet published but 78% in 2001 declare themselves christians.

So the other 23%, if they don;t like it, can bugger off elsewhere.

Meanwhile I'll let them practice (or not) their own faith without hinderance.

It woudl be a courtesy if they did the same.

if all religions should be allowed (which I understand they are currently) then how are you going to get them out of politics? I don't see how that is possible.

YANBU. The state and religion should be two separate things. I would love us to be a secular state.

Lots of selective history here. Christianity is not our "traditional religion" by a long way, and how about all the killings in Tudor times and so on?

Anyway, they can call it a "Christian country" as much as they like, but as the majority haven't been christians for a while, it doesn't mean very much.

I like the comparisons to "going to a muslim country and telling them to be christian". There's no "us" and "them" or "going" anywhere, British atheists are as British as British christians.

"Oh and don't join the WI as they have tradition, don't watch football as they have tradition." But I haven't joined this country. I am British. I can't decide whether or not to join the country, can I?

I admire and am being swayed by your discussion style Unnamed

I'm Christian, and I think I agree we should not be a Christian country. France has no official state religion, but still you see shrines to Mary in small villages and beautiful churches and cathedrals - you don't have to lose culture or a tolerant attitude towards faith just because you separate church and state.

I absolutely love the beautiful churches in England and the way our landscape and history and literature are shaped by religion, but I also think in this day and age it is more appropriate to separate that from how we define the country itself.

No Agent, I said the country being Christian is inappropriate, not that Christianity is.

People can believe what they like but I'm all for seperation of the state and the church

Heady - this country has always been considered a christian country, why do you think we are targeted by religious terrorists and have been for a considerable time. Outside of this country we are seen as christian so I don't see what is wrong with being within the country and considering us to be Christian, it wasn't long ago that this country (by census information) was christian. My religion hasn't got anything to do with it as I am refering to the general "we"

The Tudor 'killings' you're talking about were about political power more than religion rina.

AKMD Yes, I know but being secular hasn't turned modern France into Nazis has it, thats what your post implied. Like you make a country secular and its a slippery slope to Nazism or something.

Also, the 'you wouldn't go to a muslim country and...' arguments are daft because the OP isn't suggesting that we change Britain to be a Muslim country, or any other religion. There is no suggestion of forcing people to be one thing or another. Just that in a multicultural society, which we are now, maybe it is outdated to be an officially christian country, maybe being secular would be better and more appropriate.

hmm british muslims are also as british as british atheists and british christians, and they are British as well so cant decide whether to jjoin the country or not can they?

Surely Christian values are based on society viewpoints, rather than the other way around. Christian values 2000 years ago appear to be radically different to Christian values today, so it's difficult to argue that Christianity changed society rather than the other way around.

The "state" religion is pretty harmless though, as irrelevant as the Monarchy to most people and as long as they both stay that way, there's little reason to waste effort and change things which can easily lead to a worse situation. Need to ensure that they continue to be irrelevant though, prayers in councils isn't right, but that doesn't mean more laws enforcing secularity is necessary.

What JerichoStarQuilt said - says it much better than me

But i'm not christian

rina, why is that selective history btw?

Christians were killed by other Christians who thought the first lot were heretics. It's mad, I agree, but don't see how it's selective history to say we have a Christian past?

nailak the whole thing about churches trying to please man rather than God is another discussion :o

Thanks Zigzag. Power to the pissed and inarticulate

"this country has always been considered a christian country" wrong.

when you say secular, what do you mean? seperation of church and state? or seperation of private faith and religious practice and any public demonstration of faith?