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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it is about time to stop being a Christian country.

872 replies

ShagOBite · 10/02/2012 22:15

On the council prayers debate, lots of people have said "but we're a Christian country". Why are we? Should we be? How do we go about changing this? It seems so inappropriate and unnecessary in this day and age.

OP posts:
notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 22:25

I have an idea. Some of the empty churches could be kept to be used as museums when christianity finally succumbs. Our kids are getting wiser to it with each generation, it will be pushed right out to the margins of society withing a few generations.

TessTickular · 14/02/2012 22:30

I thought that's what they were? Singing museums. Grin

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 22:36

No silly, those old things in there are people. Grin

bugster · 14/02/2012 22:36

Oh so funny TessT!!! I just split my sides

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 22:39

bugster

Smile Are you able to respond to my question?

Technodad · 14/02/2012 22:42

I can't believe I have missed this thread!!!!

YANBU

Christianity played a massive part of this country's national identity, it helped form it's laws and shape the moral code. However, it was not Christianity alone that achieved this (other religions came before Christianity and were merged together), and the UK is not alone in the fact that the national identify was formed with a strong religious influence.

The ancient benefits of religion have been replaced with a modern society and are no longer needed. Religion is highly outdated and now really takes a personal faith role rather than a guidance to society.

All this nonsense about aggressive atheists really hacks me off. If the pope and Baroness Warsi really think that well educated and intelligent atheists are the problem with modern society then they are more deluded than I gave them discredit for.

The only reason why separating the Church of England from the State is difficult, is because influential (many of them unelected) people want to make it difficult! Why do they want to make it difficult? - because it would ruin their own personal selfish quality of life.

Join the NSS

Sign this e-petition: epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1617

Make a difference!

TessTickular · 14/02/2012 22:42

Are you getting cross, bugster? Over little old me? Ah.

Snorbs · 14/02/2012 22:43

bugster, I'd really appreciate it if you could answer my question about if you object to your children being taught to pray to Vishnu in every assembly?

TessTickular · 14/02/2012 22:44

Ah, nice to see you TechnoDad (namechange I presume?) If you are who I thought you are I was hoping for your presence on this thread (also NCed).

solidgoldbrass · 14/02/2012 22:44

It's just the same old bleat from the superstitious really. They are not being discriminated against by people who want to have them all locked up or shot, secularists just want them stripped of their additional, unearned, unfair privileges to interfere in other people's lives.

bugster · 14/02/2012 22:45

Do you mean the one about foisting my beliefs? I don't know where it came from. I don't want to foist. I don't want secularism foisted on me.

I bid you all goodnight.

TessTickular · 14/02/2012 22:47

bugster, do you understand what secularism is?

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 22:49

:sad:

I thought it was a reasonable question. Secularism doesn't mean foisting anything on ANYONE, you can do your thing unsolicited, I can do mine likewise. Please google for a definition of secularism.

bugster · 14/02/2012 22:51

Just to get back to you sorbs - would be very happy for my children to be taught about Vishnu, but really, you're being facetious - worship of Vishnu isn't part of our cultural heritage. If they went to school in India I would think it completely normal.

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 22:53

If any theist wants to have a go at answering please feel free :sad:

"I honestly don't know what your problem is. I've already said, no one wants to destroy churches (well they have been emptying and being turned into pubs and houses without my help but no one's talking about bulldozing St Pauls), artworks, music, literature etc etc. It's all safe. I just don't want you praying near me or my children and I want bishops out of the house of lords.

Why do you feel the need to foist your beliefs in my face?"

)Please google secularism first so that you know what it means Wink

TessTickular · 14/02/2012 22:55

bugster what about if it was a requirement for your children to worship pagan gods and goddesses? That is part of our cultural heritage. Would that be OK?

Technodad · 14/02/2012 22:55

Tess.

I am not who you think I might be (and have never posted with any other name than Technodad).

Happy to join in with the thread.

jumjum · 14/02/2012 22:56

Snorbs and techtickler: bullying and browbeating bugstar is not pretty and doesn't say much for your humanist values. But if I were to answer your rather simple or perhaps ignorant question on her behalf : of course Christians would not want thir children praying to Vishnu nor Buddah - that would be a syncretism and a contradiction in terms for Christians. MY question for you is what not stand for what you belive in - what do you believe in ??? - rather than seek to knock down what others values.

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 22:57

"....... isn't part of our cultural heritage."

Ok, so because it's always been that way I have to put up with it?

Can't you just do it in private? You even have churches all to yourself :sad:

TessTickular · 14/02/2012 23:01

Bullying? Do you mean asking pertinent questions?

"MY question for you is what not stand for what you belive in - what do you believe in ???" -

I'm not sure I understand the first part of this sentence, but as for the second, I believe in equality of opportunity. I believe every person should be allowed to hold and express their opinions without the opinions or beliefs of others being seen to be more important purely because they also happen to be the beliefs of the ruling classes. I believe that politics should be the realm of educated politicians, and education should be the realm of educators. I don't believe any sector of society deserves more of a say than any other. Sadly, this is not currently the case.

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 23:09

And conforming to the norm once again. The atheists are accused of bullying and browbeating when in fact the theist was less than kind about atheists, secularists and humanists. Can't be discriminatory about it. Whats good for the goose etc etc...

Technodad · 14/02/2012 23:16

And I think that if the whole nation is to be forced to go along with a religion, then that religion must at least be able to prove that what they believe is true!

And "you can't prove that he doesn't exist" is not evidence or proof in any way (the only place that argument is acceptable is a primary school playground).

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 23:20

Shit! Don't start the "prove it" argument or I'm outta here Sad

It just gets really tiresome, really quickly. Because, guess what? No evidence, never will be. And I don't want a chat about what evidence for it might be either, and transcendence and outside of the universe and blah blah blah

jumjum · 14/02/2012 23:20

TessTickular - well of course you are entitled to your slogans sorry beliefs: ruling classes and the like.Really, even I could do better than that.

My beliefs are Christian: quite simply the values of the Gospels such stuff as truth, love and foregiveness. But you knew that didn't you, your agenda is not values-based but an agenda with an absence of values

notfluffyatall · 14/02/2012 23:26

"My beliefs are Christian: quite simply the values of the Gospels such stuff as truth, love and foregiveness."

If that works for you? GREAT! I'm happy for you, truly! I just don't want to know, I don't feel the need to have religion have any impact on my life whatsoever and for some reason people like you and bugstar think it should be shared withh me. Thanks and all that but I'm not interested.

Fancy having a bash at my question above?