to not give these women any more opportunities to exclude me?

[MomoandTeddington]

I have namechanged.

At my 8 year old DD's school there is a group of mums, 9 of them. I have known most of them for several years since DD was at nursery with their DC. A couple of them live in the same road as me. The ones that I haven't known since nursery have been added to their group along the way, one knows one of the mums from tennis club and another lives next door to another one. I have always liked them all and got on well with them all, but I always feel they have excluded me a bit.

For example, they will arrange nights out and not invite me, yet invite me to others. Last time I went on a night out with them they were all talking about their previous night out to X restaurant and it suddenly dawned on me that I hadn't been invited on that one. I said "Oh, you didn't invite me on that one, girls" and one of them said "oooops probably shouldn't have mentioned that night out". They will invite me if they are having, say, a bodyshop party and want as many attendees as possible, but then other things they exclude me from.

I am probably the closest to one of them who lives a few doors down from me, we text each other occasionally and sometimes meet up for coffee, however for the past few months she has continually said about meeting up and then when I've suggested a day and time she has either been busy or forgotten or cancelled at very short notice. So I have now stopped suggesting meeting up with her, and am leaving the ball in her court.

The other thing they do is if one or two of them talk to me outside the school, they will be very vague with me and keep looking over my shoulder or behind them for other members of their group, and if they see one of them they will start smiling and waving at them and I feel they never listen to what I say, and sometimes are just waiting for me to go so that they can continue their conversation. One morning recently 3 were talking to me, they then all said they had to go, so I went off in my direction and they in theirs. A while later I went out in the car and saw them still talking in a group but they had moved round the corner to the other side of the school where they thought I wouldn't see when I'd gone. this morning two started talking to me and asking me about something that has happened to me recently, and I started talking too and next thing they were both looking over my head waving at someone wildly, totally ignoring what I said so I just said "Oh, bye then" and walked off.

I have decided I am not going to give them any more opportunities to exclude me. I am going to decline all invites out, and will say hello and be polite if I see them but it will be more of a "say hello and carry on walking with the buggy" than a hello and a chat. I am also not going to suggest any meet ups with any of them again. Another one of them and I went to an exercise class together once a week for a while but it dawned on me recently it was me making all the effort and so I stopped contacting her to see what would happen and she hasn't contacted me since. She always says she is busy yet has plenty of time for meet ups with the rest of them, but if I suggested meeting up in the day she would suggest a date in 2 or 3 months time because she's so busy, presumably hoping I would forget.

AIBU to think "stuff the lot of them"? I have other friends at the school, and other friend away from school btw. I don't think its me or anything I do/don't do, I think it's more that I'm not quite good enough for their clique.

There is ALWAYS a group like this in most schools ime, IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE. I think yes it's a good idea to 'stuff the lot of them!' you wouldn't want to go out with them anyway, would you? They sound horrible.

You're totally doing the right thing. Women in groups can be bitches and best avoided. You should work on finding other things to get involved in, maybe more unisex things in the community rather than all women.
If you're really concerned that it's down to you personally (which it probably isn't, some women never advance past the playground), ask someone close to you in your life (but not any of them obviously) to give you an honest assessment of your personality.

YANBU. Don't waste your time on them. Be really smiley and friendly but hold them at arm's length. You've only got 2 years left at the school anyway.

YANBU, they sound like they are still at primary themselves.

I have met mums (and dads) like this myself and it is hard to not take it personally. It does feel horrid to feel excluded. However this behaviour says a lot more about them than it does about you.

Are there any other mums about who don't behave as if they are ten? Making new friends seems like the way forward here

At some point there will be a fall out and you can watch from a distance and smirk to yourself, smug in the knowledge that you are not involved

Something very similar happened to me and I did the same (gave up on them). YANBU and it's their loss to not have you as a friend. It still hurts to have this happen though, even as an adult! It had a huge impact on me as I was new to the area and had very few other friends. It was 2-3 years ago now and I've moved again but it's left me very very wary of making any effort with new friends, especially school mums.

I have been in a very similar situation, and agree with the 'stuff the lot of them' attitude. If you have other friends both at and away from school, then I would concentrate on them. Be polite with these other women, after all, it will cost you nothing, but just because your kids are the same age, there is no need to 'give' anything of yourself to them, especially when they have treated you so lightly. Smiles and small talk, yes, investment of time and energy, no. Good luck!

I think you've answered your own questions Momo+Tedd

They probably like you well enough, but it may simply be a case of your face not fitting with their friendship group, and because they're not mean, think that their limp gestures are enough to make you feel like you're not being excluded and that they're not a clique.

There's actually nothing wrong with cliques, if only people would admit they're part of one!

I've been in on, most of the group were pleasant, and inclusive, and friendly with other mums, but mostly nights out were confined to our small number of people because we were all tight friends. Then one of the group started bitching about other people's friends and made life very uncomfortable for everyone else. During the course of this I found that I didn't wish to be part of this clique, and was disppointed with the other lady's lack of spine. I'm much happier away from it. There was a huge falling out, I stepped back. Its still going on 2 years later for some of them, there's now two factions and you can't be a member of both.

Meh. Leave them to it. You're best out of it.

Don't put any more effort into it, don't fall out with any of them (there's no one to go to when you're being bullied by a group of mums, there's no procedure, and it can make life unbearable) just smile and wave momo smile and wave. Stick with your true friends.

I just want to say good on you, OP. We all know women like this and I think you are better off without them.

Yy Valium - this happened to clique I gave up on - chief clique person turned on one of the others in the group after I stopped allowing her to do it to me by cutting contact.

yanbu

i'm in this situation too and do the smile and wave. much better.

Well thanks all! Glad it's not me being uber-sensitive!

Aldiwhore, I think you have hit the nail on the head about my face not fitting in their clique. They are all, how can I put it, social climbers. Very keen on doing the "right" thing where their DCs are concerned and appearing to be perfect parents. Also, yes, I think they just try to lightly include me so they feel they have "included" me and to make it look like they don't leave me out. I meant to mention in my OP that I have also found out that my DCs were left out of one of their DC's parties recently; they did a big party in a hall with parents there too, and we weren't invited. One of the other women in the group mentioned it the following week and had assumed we couldn't come as we weren't there. When I said no, we weren't invited, she didn't say anything, just pulled a very uncomfortable, embarrassed face, but I think it was more embarrassment and fear that she had let her friends down by mentioning it to me than embarrassment that I wasn't invited.

I feel glad that I'm able to view them all in an objective way. To be honest I wouldn't want to be part of their clique really, I guess if I did I would make more effort to "fit in" but I would rather be me even if it means me not fitting in. They all come across as being quite superior, and they do often make me feel that they don't find me interesting enough, or they just say "mmmmmm" or "yes" like they would to a little old lady or a child who was boring them. Does that make sense?

Valium, yes I am certain that some time they will leave another clique member out, I will enjoy watching that happen (from a big distance)

Sometimes I almost envy some of the groups at school because they always have each other. Well, that is what it appears to be from the "outside". However, listening to OP's and other PP's stories, I most certainly prefer to be friendly with a larger mix of various people.

OP, you are well rid of them and are most certainly NBU.

I think that most people know a group like that. I would ignore them, be friendly if they speak to you, but turn down any invitations-make out you are too busy. Don't make any first moves. Concentrate on others. There are women who feel better about themselves by excluding others-life it too short to even waste time thinking about them.

My DS joined a new school a couple of years in and I did wonder if it would be difficult to 'break in' to a group of mums who had all been together for a while. I was right - it is difficult. They are not bitches but they don't really include me
BUT, and this might be controversial, where is it written that they HAVE to include me? It isn't incumbent upon them to make special measures for me - I just have to get on with it and make my own way. This is precisely what I have done; it is a slow process but I am finally making headway with those I like and who like me. Don't sweat it - just go your own way.

momo - i think you are doing the right thing. I too have encountered a lot of epople like this, I've been a forces wife for nearly 20 years now and have moved 8 times,a dn everywhere I go you get cliques like this. I ahve now, at the age of 41, decided that I am not contacting people by text, in fact I am doing an experiment, I haven''t texted anyone first to ask to meet up for coffee/wine etc. I'v ehad a couple of invites from others (ie people who aren't connected to the forces) but see the forces wives lot, even the ones whose DHs work with mine, I just don't bother.I jsut think
"smile at them - it worries them"

AIBU to want to machine gun their horrid heads off?

Yes, you're being very sensible. And trust your instincts: if you feel they're cold shouldering you, they probably are, you don't sound like a wildly over-sensitive type from your posts.

If you want to maintain an open mind with them rather than cutting them out completely, I would drop them all an email about something you already do (ie your weekly exercise class/going to an activity group with DD) with the message "If any of you fancy it, come along". This means you are still being open to friendship if any of the nicer ones want to break out of the clique; you're in control, ie, you're going anyway, whatever they do; and if none of them reply/turn up, there's your indicator that they're not keen and it's no skin off your nose.

They are sure to turn on another member. We used to do it in the junior school-I am embarrassed to be part of it now-but we did at least grow out of it by about 10yrs old!

Excellent advice from HandMini.

Makes perfect sense. Do they also almost stop you mid sentence by simply walking off when they see someone they'd prefer to chat to?

Trust me, they may feel like a tight knit group now, but when it blows it will blow strong! They will then be the laughing stock of the community.

Its fun to stand on the side lines and watch tbh...

Being on hello terms is great. Ocassionally one of those random hellos can turn into a great friendship, other times it will lead to cliqueville, you can judge it. You know the score, do you really want to be involved?

I had about 2 years of kidding myself I was blessed to be part of such a loving and tight friendship group, when I started scratching the surface and came out of denial I realised I was in a group that bred mis-trust, ill feeling and gossip. People were hurt.

That is horrible for you! Whay a bunch of users - you are well out.

They sound like a bunch of bitchy teenagers! Wait for them to turn on each other as their kids get older - one will win a contest, get higher marks, be prettier... then the fur will fly.

Best to leave them to get on with it, and not waste valuable brain power or energy thinking about them at all!

They kind of need to exclude someone to make their own group tighter if you see what I mean. Don't give them the opportunity. Be friendly, but don't engage and be glad you are not in their 'in-crowd'! You sound lovely and sensible about it all, others will want to be your friends anyway.

School gate moms, kids at school, people at work - they all have cliques. I don't see what the big deal is. Just because your kids go to the same school and you live near each other doen't mean you all have to be Best Friends Forever.

Its not unreasonable for you to feel hurt but it doesn't make the other moms bad. I mean, some of the people sitting near me at work will go out for Friday lunchtime drinks without inviting me. Do I think that they are bad people? No. Frankly, I find their conversation a bit boring (I don't care who got knocked out last night in Strictly Come Dancing) so I'm not surprised that I'm "Not In" with them.

From the sounds of it, these moms aren't your kind of people either. Isn't it better to find friends that are 'your kind of people' rather then lamenting the lost of those that you were clinging to out of habit and because it was comfortable?

I wouldn't go as far as blanking them out. Just forget your history with them and treat them the same as the other moms from the school that you simply smileand say hello/bye to.

Aldi, yes thats exactly it! This morning one of them asked me something about something that has happened recently. I started replying to her question and then it dawned on me they were both looking over my head, waving at another clique member and smiling and talking to her. Or I will say something, they will just pull a raised eyebrows, blank expression look (I wish there was an emoticon for that!!) and I take it to mean 'Right we've heard enough from you, toddle off now, we all want to chat'

I know one of the other clique members does feel left out at times; she is the one I was going to a class with each week, and she is very insecure and feels left out at times, however she has really changed and become very cliquey with them, I think she was desperate to do whatever it took to fit in with them, even if it meant giving me the cold shoulder in favour of them.

Handmini, although I like your suggestion, I have to admit I feel it's kind of beyond that now with me where they are all concerned, and I wouldn't want to do anything that made them feel that I was still trying to be their friend, does that make sense? If one of them did want to do something with me, I think I would rather not do it, because no matter how nice they were to me there, deep down I would always have it in mind that they've treated me shoddily :)