to not give these women any more opportunities to exclude me?

[MomoandTeddington]

I have namechanged.

At my 8 year old DD's school there is a group of mums, 9 of them. I have known most of them for several years since DD was at nursery with their DC. A couple of them live in the same road as me. The ones that I haven't known since nursery have been added to their group along the way, one knows one of the mums from tennis club and another lives next door to another one. I have always liked them all and got on well with them all, but I always feel they have excluded me a bit.

For example, they will arrange nights out and not invite me, yet invite me to others. Last time I went on a night out with them they were all talking about their previous night out to X restaurant and it suddenly dawned on me that I hadn't been invited on that one. I said "Oh, you didn't invite me on that one, girls" and one of them said "oooops probably shouldn't have mentioned that night out". They will invite me if they are having, say, a bodyshop party and want as many attendees as possible, but then other things they exclude me from.

I am probably the closest to one of them who lives a few doors down from me, we text each other occasionally and sometimes meet up for coffee, however for the past few months she has continually said about meeting up and then when I've suggested a day and time she has either been busy or forgotten or cancelled at very short notice. So I have now stopped suggesting meeting up with her, and am leaving the ball in her court.

The other thing they do is if one or two of them talk to me outside the school, they will be very vague with me and keep looking over my shoulder or behind them for other members of their group, and if they see one of them they will start smiling and waving at them and I feel they never listen to what I say, and sometimes are just waiting for me to go so that they can continue their conversation. One morning recently 3 were talking to me, they then all said they had to go, so I went off in my direction and they in theirs. A while later I went out in the car and saw them still talking in a group but they had moved round the corner to the other side of the school where they thought I wouldn't see when I'd gone. this morning two started talking to me and asking me about something that has happened to me recently, and I started talking too and next thing they were both looking over my head waving at someone wildly, totally ignoring what I said so I just said "Oh, bye then" and walked off.

I have decided I am not going to give them any more opportunities to exclude me. I am going to decline all invites out, and will say hello and be polite if I see them but it will be more of a "say hello and carry on walking with the buggy" than a hello and a chat. I am also not going to suggest any meet ups with any of them again. Another one of them and I went to an exercise class together once a week for a while but it dawned on me recently it was me making all the effort and so I stopped contacting her to see what would happen and she hasn't contacted me since. She always says she is busy yet has plenty of time for meet ups with the rest of them, but if I suggested meeting up in the day she would suggest a date in 2 or 3 months time because she's so busy, presumably hoping I would forget.

AIBU to think "stuff the lot of them"? I have other friends at the school, and other friend away from school btw. I don't think its me or anything I do/don't do, I think it's more that I'm not quite good enough for their clique.

YABU - to fret and worry about it so much !! Do something more useful with your time .... Do you work ? Perhaps you should.

Lorcana, I haven't said I fret and worry about it? Have I?

Yes, I do work, I have my own business.

What good advice, next time someone is horrible to you OP go out and work. I often find that when someone is really nasty the minute I step inside the office I forget all about it!

LOL Valium, yes an office is the answer to it all!

I often chat away to someone I don't know well at school & then someone else comes & they abandon me mid sentence

It makes me laugh how rude they are & I chortle to myself to stopthe bitterness creep in

I also try to grab kids ASAP so I can hurry home

I was once invited to a Sch mums night out, only ten people turned up so I realised that the other twenty obviously weren't bothered
And it wasn't all that great anyway
my closest friends are still old school friends, uni friends and work friends
In a few years time this Sch run business will be a distant memory when all the kids go to different secondary schools & have different friends

Ditto here, Gumby, I'd say all my close friends are my ex school friends, plus a few others I've gathered along the way.

I think more than anything I am annoyed with myself for potentially wasting time talking with these women over the years when I wish I'd given them a wide berth from day one! Ah well, hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it

Momo, look at it this way, they could have turned out to be lovely, you gave it your best shot as a friendly and optimistic person and, whatever, they're fools. You never know when one or two of them might peel off from the clique or get excluded like you do, and they might individually be really nice people, then you won't have wasted time at all.

School-gate mums - useful for those 10 minutes when you have to stand about. Useful, for getting to know your DCs mates. Then get on with your own life.
We had a group (not posh enough to be a 'clique') of about 8 mums who would meet up at 3pm,while DS2 was in primary. He's now yr10, and I only see 1 mum still from the group. Everyone else faded away. In fact i was v friendly with another one, met up for coffee often, did Ikea together, talked about everything. She moved house in June, within our town. Changed her mobile and landline number. I still havent' been told her new address or phone no. Brutal, but that's life. They don't generally make good friends.

Im not sure why you thought it would be a good idea to be involved in a silly little clique like this in the first instance? Saying things like 'there are nine of us- we go on nights out etc' surely LOOKS to everyone else like you are some exclusive little clique and excludes lots of other parents? How can you complain about cliquey behaviour if you are happy to be part of such a group?

That's true, Handmini. It will certainly be interesting in future to see what happens with the rest of them and to see if anyone else gets left out.

I actually think they have excluded one woman before; she was always on nights out and always with them, and suddenly she stopped and is never with them now when I see her at school. She is very nice, although I don't know her that well. Am wondering whether it was them or her that made her stop hanging round with them.

In my kids school its the Mums of Girls that are cliquey. These mums only ever throw pink princess birthday parties where stinky boys (no matter how friendly the kids are with each other) are excluded. The Mums of Boys throw parties for both sexes. For 6 months I used to stand alone in the playground. One woman even bumped into me and just walked around me as if she had bumped into a lamppost, no apology.

EDLP - wanting to be part of a friendship group, go out for dinner etc doesn't make OP (or anyone else) cliquey. She's subsequently discovered that the group doesn't work on an inclusive, friendly, open basis, but rather in a gossipy, exclusive, snidey way...that's cliquey, so she now wants out.

Seriously this sounds beyond childish! I am aghast people would want to be part of such groups! I often think its those who were unpopular at school/deeply insecure who feel the need to belong to a group of any kind- fuck me if only I had enough time in my life to worry about exercise classes with x, coffee with y....

Completely agree with your approach. I did exactly the same this time a year ago, and made a very good friend out of it as the clique imploded. Watch with interest, and get on with pursuing the worthwhile friendships.

Ooh I have an anecdote! When I first moved to this area I knew someone who already lived here. She rang me up one day...
"Hi, Titties what are you doing tomorrow?"
"Taking dd to Rhyme Time at the library but apart from that, erm nothing. Why?"
"Y'know that pub across from the library?"
"Yes... (feeling excited now)"
"Well, a few of the Mums are meeting there for lunch at about 12.30pm..."
"Oh lovely! ..."
"So I'll meet you outside the library afterwards ok? About 1.30 ish?"

:(

I have to say that was the start of of the end of our friendship.

FFS two how insensitive!

So because I went to an exercise class with someone and felt let down about someone continually letting me down about meeting up for coffee, I am beyond childish, was unpopular at school and deeply insecure, EauDeLaPoisson? Whatever!

ATaleOfTwoTitties, in a way it's quite similar; I think this clique all have girls apart from one of them, although there are younger siblings that are boys.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I've made my mind up to not have any more to do with any of them apart from a quick hello. Like I said, I have others to talk to at the school and to be honest sometimes I do like to do the school run, grab DD and shoot off home, without standing around talking. I don't feel like I have much in common with them all anyway, occasionally I bump into one or the other in the local supermarket and conversation is very stilted, I don't feel like I can be myself with them.

OMG TwoTitties, I don't blame you for dumping that friend after that!! what a bitch!

Fancy having enough time to bother about someone being nice to you! Imagine!

EDLP...just because the OP is writing about her friendships in this particular post doesn't mean she spends "all her time" thinking about lunches and coffees. You're extrapolating that from this one (legitimate sounding) concern she has. Do you think people shouldn't expend time and emotional energy on friendships and getting them right?

Rools of Skool Gates:

• there is always a clique
• if you work, you will always be outside it

Best is to ignore and do your own thing IMO

Over and above everything else, these people are just plain RUDE.

EauDeLaPoisson You're right, it sounds childish, and that can the most annoying part, this childishness causes hurt.

Unfortunately you cannot tell how childish it is until you're up to your neck in vicious rumours... the OP is sensibly seeing the potential and stepping aside, like an adult.

At present the split clique I used to be part of is in a hysterical frenzy of pencilgate... it started with a stolen pencil, but the kids have been dragged in to it, nasty horrible rumours and spilled secrets across FB/phone/email, and its really seriously nasty. Some innocents have got dragged in along the way too, most people want to stay out of it, which leaves the victims of the spite drifting alone. It IS childish, in fact I'd say that children aren't that bad! Its awful, and so utterly pointless. These aren't JKstylee bored women either, there's a real mix of women involved. One is a teacher ffs!!

I had to back out a while back because I was becoming a target for defending another, who then got welcomed back into the clique and turned on me.

Its a bloody headache. Life is more pleasant without it.

Thankfully my boys go to a different school, so my escape was easy, for others, its not so easy.

whatmeworry its not that simple. Many of the people involved work, full time... the significant thing is that its a large(ish) village, everyone lives in the village, most of the children go to the same school... if only having a job made you immune, doesn't always work like that!

Thank fook I live in the sticks and my kids go to a different school where people are pretty much pleasant and there are no obvious cliques. The village where its all kicked off is different... the school gates are sinister! Where I am its very pleasant. Not sure what makes it all kick off actually. One village varies from the next.

A big deal seems to be made out of the other mom looking over someone's shoulder and seeing another member of the clique. Once a month we have a piss up paid for by the company. You chat - busy? how are the kids? what are you working on these days? 10 minutes later you've exhausted your chat, Someone walks by. One person peels off to chat to that person and you join another group.

What good advice, next time someone is horrible to you OP go out and work. I often find that when someone is really nasty the minute I step inside the office I forget all about it!

Sounds like good advice to me. Stupid manager has agreed to 2 weeks for xyz. He isn't technical so he should have passed the email onto me. Too bizzy being wound up by people like him to spend time concerning myself with people who don't want to have long conversations with me at the coffee machine