to not give these women any more opportunities to exclude me?

[MomoandTeddington]

I have namechanged.

At my 8 year old DD's school there is a group of mums, 9 of them. I have known most of them for several years since DD was at nursery with their DC. A couple of them live in the same road as me. The ones that I haven't known since nursery have been added to their group along the way, one knows one of the mums from tennis club and another lives next door to another one. I have always liked them all and got on well with them all, but I always feel they have excluded me a bit.

For example, they will arrange nights out and not invite me, yet invite me to others. Last time I went on a night out with them they were all talking about their previous night out to X restaurant and it suddenly dawned on me that I hadn't been invited on that one. I said "Oh, you didn't invite me on that one, girls" and one of them said "oooops probably shouldn't have mentioned that night out". They will invite me if they are having, say, a bodyshop party and want as many attendees as possible, but then other things they exclude me from.

I am probably the closest to one of them who lives a few doors down from me, we text each other occasionally and sometimes meet up for coffee, however for the past few months she has continually said about meeting up and then when I've suggested a day and time she has either been busy or forgotten or cancelled at very short notice. So I have now stopped suggesting meeting up with her, and am leaving the ball in her court.

The other thing they do is if one or two of them talk to me outside the school, they will be very vague with me and keep looking over my shoulder or behind them for other members of their group, and if they see one of them they will start smiling and waving at them and I feel they never listen to what I say, and sometimes are just waiting for me to go so that they can continue their conversation. One morning recently 3 were talking to me, they then all said they had to go, so I went off in my direction and they in theirs. A while later I went out in the car and saw them still talking in a group but they had moved round the corner to the other side of the school where they thought I wouldn't see when I'd gone. this morning two started talking to me and asking me about something that has happened to me recently, and I started talking too and next thing they were both looking over my head waving at someone wildly, totally ignoring what I said so I just said "Oh, bye then" and walked off.

I have decided I am not going to give them any more opportunities to exclude me. I am going to decline all invites out, and will say hello and be polite if I see them but it will be more of a "say hello and carry on walking with the buggy" than a hello and a chat. I am also not going to suggest any meet ups with any of them again. Another one of them and I went to an exercise class together once a week for a while but it dawned on me recently it was me making all the effort and so I stopped contacting her to see what would happen and she hasn't contacted me since. She always says she is busy yet has plenty of time for meet ups with the rest of them, but if I suggested meeting up in the day she would suggest a date in 2 or 3 months time because she's so busy, presumably hoping I would forget.

AIBU to think "stuff the lot of them"? I have other friends at the school, and other friend away from school btw. I don't think its me or anything I do/don't do, I think it's more that I'm not quite good enough for their clique.

The mum that I mentioned in my last post was my friend from the age of 14. Other friends came and went but we remained constant. Things changed when we started our families. Her hyper-neurotic and ultra controlling tendencies were free to thrive. I'd always known she was like this and either ignored or just giggled about it. I remember when she complained about her dh playing with their son when he came home from work because he was a bit noisy and did it wrong. So her solution was to make sure ds was in bed before his daddy came home from work. Her bedtime routine was absolutely rigid and she refused an invitation to a mini birthday tea party we were having (at 4pm) just in case his routine was messed up.
It was around this time she sank into her local Mummy Mafia (I poo pooed the existence of these factions until my friend signed up :o ) There wasn't a meeting, play group, park, play area or, coffee morning that this group didn't descend on and monopolise. They were a force to be reckoned with. On Thursdays there were no events and she considered this her day off. We no longer met up ad-hoc. She had to check her diary to ensure that I didn't clash with a play session. Also I had to be on top form. If I had no make up on, wanted to read a magazine or was quiet for more than 20 consecutive seconds she'd declare that something was wrong with me. You know those awful people who keep asking you whats wrong even though you feel fine? Eventually you feel awful though? Thats her. I miss her but the old her.

But not too busy to post on MN don't?

YANBU. There always seems to be a scapegoat in these sort of cliques, I have been one myself and as I am simply fabulous I know it was them not me. Stuff them boring bastards

Ignore them. Sounds like you don't want them as friends. Leave them too it and enjoy the sure-to-happen group-cataclysm that will happen at some point down the road.

whatmeworry its not that simple. Many of the people involved work, full time... the significant thing is that its a large(ish) village, everyone lives in the village, most of the children go to the same school... if only having a job made you immune, doesn't always work like that!

I've lived in a small village, a rural town, a bigger town and a large city as the kids have grown up, in my experience the School Gates have all had a Clique (Some worse than others I agree, but there is Always A Clique), and if you worked you couldn't be part of it - mainly because you were not around for the coffee morning bonding rituals etc etc.

I don't know of any strategy that works better than to ignore, find others who will be friendly, and do your own thing.

I do think a job - or another activity you do - does make you more immune as it gives you another frame of reference, access to other people who are not being unpleasant, and keeps your mind busy elsewhere.

I have done exactly that in the past, but probably went a step too far. I should have just ignored and found new friends, but instead I just unfriended on facebook which led to arguments with one person and then her telling people that Ive been slagging them off.

This was a conversation I had with a so called friend after discovering a new meet-a-mum group on facebook. I had known here on and off for 8 years or so

Her: What did your DH say about you meeting people you dont know from the internet?
Me: He was fine as he knew I was with you
Her: Its embarrassing not having any friends
Me: yeah I know
Her: Well you've got to give it time you'll meet some friends eventually

So she wasnt my friend then, Im better off without her anyway. She was the person telling other people I was slagging them off.

I am going through something vaguely similar albeit in a work/study setting and it is a particular individual I have problems with.

I came to the conclusion that you can't change their pattern of behaviour and the only thing to do is ignore them and find other people to hang around with who don't interact like they are in the first year of junior school.

I think you are right not to bother with these women any more. But tbh I totally understand their behaviour.

I have groups of friends I feel close to and that I would rather spend my time with. If we are somewhere where there are others I am friendly with I will include them - particularly if I like them. But this doesn't mean I will invite them out to social occasions with my smaller group of friends.

I have to say if it was just the looking over my shoulder for someone better to talk to thing then that would be ok with me, if it was just their way, although I do think it's rude to do that. Far better to excuse themselves from a conversation and go off and talk to who they want to.

It's a combination of the factors really; not inviting me to some things that everyone else has gone to. Constantly cancelling seeing me but having plenty of time for others. That kind of thing.

I guess as I have known them all for so long I just assumed I was part of the gang, but evidently I am not. I'm not going to lose sleep over it though, as I said I have others to chat to at the school and have plenty of other friends. Today has just been a bit of a turning point for me and has given me a reality check to see some of them for who and what they truly are.

notveryinventive, that friend sounds awful, you are well rid of her!

I found myself wondering if this was the same clique of mothers in dd's class, but I reckon there are only 7 of them. In all other respects they sound identical.

I and another friend have been hurt by the insular nature of their clique, but we came to the conclusion that you just have to shrug it off and move on with life. It is not a judgment on you personally.

There's a group of busy bodies mums at DDs school too - funnily enough they're also the PTAs. One of them constantly asks me for help (when her usual friends aren't around) but on the other hand she Continuously patronises me like some kid! I'm fed up with her so whilst being polite I usually think up clever come backs when she does speak to me...any other time I walk on and leave her to it.

...funnily enough they're also the PTAs

Yes, that is Very Important for the Clique, as it gives them Power.

Whatme - was about to say that myself - me and another mum are excluded from stuff (I like her she is nice and the head of clique just a wee bit vacuous ) anyway we were excluded from something school related and joined in with some other people instead. They also aren't in a clique , looked aroudn and the cliquey lot looked dead bored and had nothing to say, whilst we kept doing the giggling and ssshhing as we had a lovely time. So couldn't give a stuff about the clique, or perhaps those of us excluded from the "trendy" cliques have just started our own nice people clique [grin[

Precisely, they must believe they are more important because they are the PTAs...I just take it they're trying to fill their lives with crap anything because they're not fulfilled enough in their own lives...DH agrees

Oh how funny, these mums are all on the PTA too. Not only at the school but also at the pre-school, and they fundraise for the Brownies and other clubs too.

Mumof1plustwins, I am so familiar with that patronising tone. Like the tone they would use if talking to a child or someone senile! A sort of 'I am better than you but today will grace you with a few minutes of my time' tone!

as an incomer to a largish village - I have engaged with various groups of friends and kept myself on the edge making firmer friends with individuals I liked and maintaining a friendly distance with others. I have found that the best stance for my mental health and honestly why spend any extra time with people you are not bothered about. I still have friends from pre-children years but as they all live miles away and I never see them. So to have some semblance of a social life I am friendly with what could be described as a couple of cliques, my advice is not emotionally invest too heavily in these friendships forged in the gossamer threads of shared school runs - will they survive the end of the primary years?

I do not mind if I am only invited to the regular curry night but not to the after Xmas Ball party - similarly I only invite people I genuinely have something in common with (other than ovaries) to my house. After a few mistakes and upsets in my early attempts at making friendships I am very happy with the set up and no longer see groups of gossiping parents as a threat but as a natural result of having shared interests. Rude people exisit in any social situation and are not my problem. Don't care what people think of you, what do you think of them?

I struggle with conversation at the school gate, ten minutes every morning and afternoon, day in day out. What is there left to say? Although the time mounts up it's not a relatioship that will under those circumstances grow.

I'm often wrangling a tired/nervous/overexcited child. I'm a friendly, well informed person - no really I'am, I just can't always pull out the conversation nugget needed at the school gate.

Please give me the benefit of the doubt when I gaze off into outer space or suddenly turn away to catch someone else about swimming lessons, I really don't mean to be rude. My priority is preventing DD2 having a post school meltdown.

YANBU and once you shake off this group you will find naturally that you start to make friends with indvidual mothers who also prefer to avoid 'groups'. I often feel a bit upset when I am excluded but its nothing that hasn't happened to me before so I try not to let it bother me. Women either like me or don't and if there is one lady in the clique who for whatever reason has taken a dislike to you I'm afraid you dont stand a chance so leave them be.
I am also very concious that I am always the one doing the inviting but you know what if I didnt I would never go out!

Btw I am a school Gov and occasional attendee of the PTA - still not a cliquey person - Is it assumed that PTA involvement makes you cliquey or does being part of a school clique automatically make you a PTA member...?

I really hate that! To be constantly feeling that you are an alsoran and actually they are only chatting to you until a real friend turns up I do not, and never will understand, why anyone does that. But I don't really get friendship anyway - I tend to be friendly to anyone who is friendly to me or who looks like they need a friend. Never understood the networking thing or the grading of friendships

It's the latter in this case, bigmouth, or so it seems

MOMO, def move on. focus on your real and old friends. one thing I decided was that rather than try and progress crappy "local" friendships, I would instead focus my energy on staying in better and more frequent contact with my old real mates, and if needs be drive the distance and see them at weekends.

for some reason I wanted to make "local mates" but fuck, all we have in common is (a) a postcode and (b) our kids are same age

trim them, and lets hope something shitty happens to them , karma and all that !

Goodness what a nasty bunch of bitches! You are well shot of them! Is this what I have to look forward to when my dc start school?! Argh! I prefer people who are not cliquey as the ones who are really are the worst kind of people! If I am with a group of mates at a tot group etc and there is someone on her own we will always make her feel welcome and I have always invited friends to come and join in groups etc - I just hate that clique mindset.

Hope you find some real friends op - those women are nasty!

There is a group like this at DS's school led by a very vocal gobshite no-it-all, gossip so I tend to stay away. The 'group' has slightly broken away due to some of the dc's moving up a class so it gives me a chance to chat to one of the nicer ones. However I do find that whenever I am talking to her it gets interrupted by another 'from the group' Mum butting in about stuff and people I dont know....Things like "Oh wasnt funny on Saturday night with his dancing" are you looking forward to party" etc

It feels very like being back at school myself