...to have let my almost-6yr-old DD cry and wail for 3 and a half hours during the night because I wouldn't lie with her while she fell back to sleep?

[OhSoDespicableMe]

...this was after spending an hour and a half getting her to go to sleep in the first place, without myself or DH lying with her. She has always been a terrible sleeper, from the day she was born, and is a VERY active, full of energy, always-on-the-go sort of girl. And a drama queen and attention-seeker. And I love her dearly. But we've finally decided that it is not reasonable to lie with her while she falls asleep, and that she should be able to stay in bed and not come looking for us for a drink, trip to the loo (sometimes 4 or 5 trips in a row), to say she has a sore throat/tummy/toe etc etc etc etc, to ask for her music back on, less light/more light and so on for blooming hours on end!!

I never left her to cry it out as a baby - I hate the thought of this for babies who are too small to understand why they've been left alone and why Mummy won't come get them. But once DD was old enough to have decent understanding of things we started just sitting next to her while she fell asleep, and then later leaving her with music/night light etc. This was sort of going ok, although seldom straight forward. But things have now escalated way out of control. She's simply not getting enough sleep, nor are we. And she starts to stress about bedtime hours before she's due to go to bed. I hate seeing her worried or upset, and letting her cry for so long last night 9in between taking her back to bed millions of times) really went against my grain.

Any advice for me? Can any others who don't believe in cry-it-out etc reassure me that it's ok for a 6yr old to cry in order to learn to sleep in their own bed? Help!!

My DD was a bit of a crap sleeper and we worked out when she was about 5, that a lot of the drama at bedtime was because she got herself into a state about not being able to fall asleep STRAIGHT AWAY - she is a bit of a drama queen . So we told her not to worry about going to sleep, because that was something her body would decide for her, but that she had to lie quietly in her bed with her eyes closed and rest, and this was what she would get a sticker for, because it was something she could control, not how quickly she actually fell asleep. Any getting up was dealt with by rapid return/very little interaction and touch wood, she's ok now.

Maybe half term - only a week away round here, would be a better time to try this, as presumably your DD has now gone to school knackered.

Depends on your neighbours really. If you have any. Try to bear in mind that noises seem much louder at night than during the day as there are fewer distractions and less background noise. I speak as someone whose neighbours have been ignoring letting their DCs CIO for almost 8 years and I'm beside myself.

YANBU. As a toddler my DS quickly realised that crying non stop wasn't going to get him what he wanted so after a few months of this he gave up. Similarly, we sent DS back to his own room whenever he woke up and wanted to climb into our bed.

As a result I often had an inward smug face whenever other parents complained about stuff that we nipped in the bud before it became the norm.

What time is she going to bed and getting up?

Is she tired when she goes to bed, or still full of beans?

Could she listen to a story tape in bed?
Does she have a night light?
I'd have laid with her last night tbh because I bet you didn't sleep last night, and she'll be tired and worried about bedtime at school

At 6 I think you just have to let her cry. She'll do it for a couple of nights and learn her lesson. Its not pleasant but if you are otherwise loving, caring parents this one thing wont damage her for life!!

PushyDad sometimes, despite your best efforts, it does become the norm

we can all be smug about some aspect of our parenting

She is simply protesting at not having you exactly where she wants you, so no it is not unreasonable to let her cry it out.
Keep it up. These performances won't last, I promise you.
She will cry for a shorter and shorter time each night until she finally accepts she's not going to get her way, and gives up trying to.

You are doing the right thing. At six, she shouldn't be hijacking your evenings like this.

She and her 4 yr old sister sleep in a room together. We aim for lights out around 8, and up around 7 (in an ideal world). She seldom gives the appearance of being tired, and we've often found she comes to a crescendo of jabbering on and then falls asleep the next instant. The moment she wakes in the morning (or middle of the night) she is fully wide awake, ready for action, and will happily start straight into a complicated game or art project while the rest of us have barely wiped the sleep from our eyes!!

And yes, she has gone to school totally knackered today. To be honest I would have given in to her after the first hour or two, but DH thought that would just send the message that if she cries enough Mummy will give in. I don't know if I agree with this or not - I think she was really past learning any sort of valuable lesson after a while.

I feel so sorry for her. She says she just can't fall asleep or get sleepy. I did tell her just to lie and rest, get cosy, think of nice things etc etc. And that if she keeps getting up she can't possibly get sleepy. In that sense, the getting up continually is just naughty behaviour I suppose.? And needs dealt with.

I think that now you have started it, you have to continue, to lie with her tonight will just send out the wrong message.

It WILL get easier. She is 6 fgs not 6 months, she can fully understand what is being asked of her.

If you go back to staying with her until she sleeps, last night will have been totally in vain. Stick with what you are doing each night and I will bet that each night will get easier, with less returns to bed.

My boys share a room (7 and 5) and they were doing the need a drink, need a wee, need a poo thing for a while, and it was really beginning to drain us, so we have now started a reward system, whereby if they are good all week, they can have Gogos at the weekend. It has made a huge difference, and the messing about at night is a thing of the past.

At 6, she is definitely old enough to be reasonsed with.

there is a lovely book here
about your child gaining control over their sleep issues, don't know if your dd is a bit young for it though

bribes

I think you are doing the right thing. She is getting sleepy because of it during the day so doesn't sound like she is a hyperactive child, which is what I thought initially. Keep going. Stick it out. it will get better. Good luck :)

YANBU

I really feel for you, especially if it took over 3 hours.

(It's not as if after the 1st hour you should have given in, thus telling her you will always eventually give in).

I don't think you are being unreasonable. I suppose the real test will be seeing how she responds tonight, knowing that you won't give in. My hope for you, stressing that my only experience is hearing experiences of my niece and nephew, is that after a few nights she will realise you won't come if she cries and so will stop!

My dd is currently a year and I haven't been able to leave her and cry purely for the reasons you have given above. I'd like to think when she is able to understand why we are leaving her, it will be easier (Although reading this maybe this won't be the case. Do you wish you had done it earlier now in hindsight?)

GOOD Luck,
hope things get better for you all.

-Surely it can't be worse than last night?

I totally agree with your husband - if you cave tonight it is sending out the message that if she screams for long enough, she will get her way. It will only reinforce her crying tactic.

Repeat again tonight, what you did last night. Don't cave.

This sounds hard, but I think you are doing the right thing. If she has no disgnosed SN, then part of this must just be 'because she can' and you are teaching her that she can't, which is part of being a parent. I know children need different amounts of sleep, and at 6 she may not need the best part of 11 hours (my 5 year old DD does, but I know friends who DCs seem to need closer to 10 hours for example.) Perhaps some story CDs would help in the early stage of the evening?

If she gets up, take her straight back to bed, no messing.

She is wakeful at bedtime simply because this is now her habit. If you insist that bedtime is bedtime no matter what, soon enough her habit will change.

Trust me.

Mine was like this and I worked out that she is very sensitive to sugar.... knocked sugar out of her diet and she is MUCH better. I let her have fruit of course...but in the week she gets no refined sugar at all.

She does have honey on cereal or yogurt in the morning but thats all.

I also have a DD who insists she isn't tired but can fall asleep in the next breath. I too had to 'teach' her to adapt to mummy not staying with her until she fell asleep.

They do get tired, they just don't listen to the cues. A great CM once told me that if you have a child who seems really energetic etc before bed time, try putting them to bed earlier. The increase in energy levels is actually a sign of over-tiredness, at which point the body becomes so wired it is more difficult for the child to calm down and go to sleep. The trick is to get them into the bedtime routine before they hit this point.

What's you bedtime routine like? It may be worth going back to the bath and story/milky drink routine you probably adopted when she was a toddler. Great at slowing the body down and inducing sleep. If it's all too stressful to jump to crying it out straight away, perhaps you could try reducing the amount of time slowly, so stay with her for 30 mins the first week, 20 the next, 10 the following week, etc.

Good luck.

We used bribery to get my 4 year old to go to sleep without me there. She is fine now. My older daughter sometimes finds it hard to drop off, so i encourage her to read to herself as it helps. (Helps me too.)

Thanks so much for all your replies. It's strengthened my resolve for tonight. Going to sleep peacefully without my assistance is a skill she simply must learn.

learningaswego - no I don't wish we'd started earlier. I don't agree with babies or toddlers being left to cry. And really we did begin this whole process gently, a couple years ago, by initially sitting with her as she dropped off, and then leaving her with light, music, and sometimes story CDs as someone suggested earlier. It was going ok until the last couple months! I think she is just a very active girl, whose little brain just won't stop whirring, and sleep is never going to be high on her list of priorities. (I might eat my words when she becomes a teen!!)

Do keep posting if you have any more suggestions for me!

I know it's a trick I use myself and have suggested to my DD when she claims she can't sleep. That's to think of one of her favourite TV shows or books and pretend she's in the show/book. What would the story be about, what would she be doing there, what would she say to the other characters?

Last time she did this it was with the Octonauts. I prefer other grown-up shows with buff actors, but it usually works. It's just a trick to occupy your mind from thinking about the fact you aren't sleeping yet.

I second the bribery as she's a good age to appreciate and be motivated by it.

Good luck tonight.