...to have let my almost-6yr-old DD cry and wail for 3 and a half hours during the night because I wouldn't lie with her while she fell back to sleep?

[OhSoDespicableMe]

...this was after spending an hour and a half getting her to go to sleep in the first place, without myself or DH lying with her. She has always been a terrible sleeper, from the day she was born, and is a VERY active, full of energy, always-on-the-go sort of girl. And a drama queen and attention-seeker. And I love her dearly. But we've finally decided that it is not reasonable to lie with her while she falls asleep, and that she should be able to stay in bed and not come looking for us for a drink, trip to the loo (sometimes 4 or 5 trips in a row), to say she has a sore throat/tummy/toe etc etc etc etc, to ask for her music back on, less light/more light and so on for blooming hours on end!!

I never left her to cry it out as a baby - I hate the thought of this for babies who are too small to understand why they've been left alone and why Mummy won't come get them. But once DD was old enough to have decent understanding of things we started just sitting next to her while she fell asleep, and then later leaving her with music/night light etc. This was sort of going ok, although seldom straight forward. But things have now escalated way out of control. She's simply not getting enough sleep, nor are we. And she starts to stress about bedtime hours before she's due to go to bed. I hate seeing her worried or upset, and letting her cry for so long last night 9in between taking her back to bed millions of times) really went against my grain.

Any advice for me? Can any others who don't believe in cry-it-out etc reassure me that it's ok for a 6yr old to cry in order to learn to sleep in their own bed? Help!!

My DS is like this (nearly 7 )

Needs to have one of us (usually me) in room with him to fall asleep, basically because he's never learned to fall asleep by himself for all sorts of reasons.

Its very hard but you are doing the right thing.

I've had times where we've worked on it so that instead of staying with him I go to my room, leave doors open, read a book/mag & shout "Night Night" to each other so he knows I'm nearby. After 1 difficult night where he cried for (what seemed like) ages, it was much easier.

Just to update - last night not so bad. Nothing sweet after dinner (except strawberries!), cup of milk, watched a bit of a peaceful movie, long story in bed, left with books and low light and music for a while. DD2 (4 yrs) fell asleep with her face on a book, DD1 was fairly peaceful, lights out, stroked her hair a little while. Left the room.......And she appeared at our bedroom door......took her back to bed.....heard her in the bathroom......took her back to bed.....she started crying etc etc....carried on like this for about an hour and then she was over.

Woke briefly in the night, but i just sat next to her and she was gone in 2 minutes.

So actually she did manage to unwind, get sleepy and peaceful, and then decided to get up and wander and cry and not stay in bed as she was asked to, and wake herself all up - which is really just naughtiness not an inability to relax. So we'll stick at being fairly strict, particularly at bedtime, maybe less so in the middle of the night.

Still considering the relaxation CD. Thanks for everyones helpful suggestions!

And just to add - she brought me home a wee card she'd made at school, which said 'I love you mummy. Please can you stay with me at bedtime' which kind of broke my heart!!

I think she sound like a spoilt brat. I can't believe at her age you have still been laying next to her in bed to get her to sleep at night!

Leave her to cry, set her some boundaries and stop mollycoddling her!

Well the child is attention seeking and a drama queen in the OP's own words!!

Lets face it, if the OP had set boundaries from the beginning rather than getting into the whole laying in bed with her til she falls asleep thing, there wouldn't be any of this drama or hassle at 6 years old!! She's not in distress; she knows how to push her parents buttons to get the result she wants, which is attention and her own way

I'm glad I'm not friends with you too, birdsofshoreandsea; I cannot abide people with an airy-fairy attitude to parenting and that let their children rule the roost.

It sounds like your family has some other issues that need looking into, like how it's got to this point if she is indeed an attention-seeker and you give in too much, or if she needs any extra help/understanding, as suggested elsewhere in the thread.
It really isn't all that normal for a child to be so stubborn for so very long. A bad sleeper is one thing, but 3 1/2 hours of crying at night and not understanding that night time is for sleep is another.

Any adults every felt lonely or sad or scared? I can just imagine the thread. "I have really bad dreams and get very frightened' but my dp just says I should pull myself together qnd get over it- he won't even give me a cuddle. AIBU to expect a bit of sympathy qnd understanding?

OP didn't mention bad dreams.
I agree, I think there are other issues if she just cannot deal with the sheer daily inevitability of bedtime and nightime, not even alone (her sister is there).

Our two used to listen to story CD's as they went to sleep - would that help, or would it annoy her little sister?

On the fence with this one. I simply could not imagine letting my DD cry for 3.5 hours! We have had differing sleep issues with DD over the years but all have been overcome with love and cuddles!

I can't understand anyone allowing that to go on for six years. Sorry, but that's just bad parenting, no matter how wonderful you may think you have been.

It would have been far better for your child to have been left to cry as a four month old. Two nights would have cracked it. Instead you have let this continue for six years. I think that's appalling.

I'm with exit - love and cuddles all the time. All my dcs were different, one of them very emotionally needy re. sleep and bedtimes, needed someone with her, was known during teen angst to be found asleep on the floor next to our bed, curled up in her duvet. Her sister would say, at a very young age "tired now mummy, off to bed" . One could watch horror films as a teenager and not be in the least affected when just the thought of it would bring her sister into my bed or her sister's

I think we have to respond to our children - not follow some parenting template which treats them all as if they were the same. Yes the OPs child will learn to sleep on her own by leaving her to cry - but at what cost?

Our neighbours do this. We've had 7 years of her bellowing herself to sleep, ranging from 30 mins to 2 bloody hours. some nights this prevents DS1 from getting to sleep.

boobysmum leaving a 4 month old to cry it out isn't ideal, their brains aren't developed enough to know that if they go to sleep, they will get comfort when they wake up.

My DD was once scared by some horror thing she had inadvertently watched at school. I tried everything and one night I lay in my bed listening to her sobbing - (for about 10 minutes). She then slept with me for the next 6 months until she got over her fear. She still won't sleep with mirrors in her room, she covers them with scarves.

I can remember being petrified at the age of 13 after my first horror film, and the relief when my dad swopped beds so that I could get in with mum.

"It would have been far better for your child to have been left to cry as a four month old"

What a completely awful thing to say!

I certainly can't imagine spending my evening sitting next to a six year old in order to get them to go to sleep. It just wouldn't happen here - not at any age beyond babyhood - and even then I never did.

You wight as well write 'welcome' on your forehead. What a waste of time.

I had friends we used to holiday with but every evening one of them had to spend 2h+ in the kids' room, reading to them and being there until they slept.

It was sort of eyebrow-raising when they were toddlers but when they did the same with their school-age children, we decided not to go away with them again.

I'll do a 15-minute wind-down chat, and I enjoy it (you get quite a lot out of them!) but as someone said, what a waste of time!

Some people do seem to feel very vitriolic about this!! I always read strident "I would never allow this, you weed!" to mean "this has never happened to me and I haven't a clue what it's like".

I used to be like the poster's DD, at about the same age (I fear it did last for a few years...). I used to feel very anxious lying awake, and then the anxiety escalated until it became impossible to sleep. I didn't cry, but I did come downstairs hundreds of times and my Mum was at the end of her tether, tried bribery, ferocity, the lot. In the end I grew out of it (now I can sleep for England, at any time, anywhere!). Which isn't very helpful, but I do think that it's normal for children who are of a slightly anxious/overimaginative disposition (lapsing into unconsciousness is quite scary, if you think about it, anyway), and it doesn't mean that there are 'issues' or that she's spoilt (children do interfere with your life, after all, that's kind of inevitable...There is no fixed point by which they're meant to be 'fully trained', and sleep issues can arise at any time). I think it's nice for her to have reassurance, but in the context of a consistent response. CDs and emphasising that she doesn't have to go to sleep are als good ideas, I think.

Well unfortunately, drippy yes-darling-no-darling-three-bags-full-darling parents are irritating to the rest of us. Why I cannot explain....but they are.

We lose respect for those who are controlled by their offspring I suppose.

We spent a week away once with some drippy parents, and their five year old got to decide when he went to bed, which meant that we got to spend our evenings entertaining a tired-but-wouldn't-go-to-bed cranky five year old, while our own kids were packed away to bed at the appropriate time.
Our son, who was 9 at the time, wasn't at all impressed that he was made to go to bed earlier than the five year old either....and that was taking into account letting him stay up later, because were on holiday, already.

Then of course, there was the one to two hours spent lying next to him while he went to sleep each evening, thus leaving us twiddling our thumbs waiting for them to finish having their evenings monopolised by a five year old, so we could enjoy a little adult time on our mutual holiday.

I wouldn't go away with them again. He's seven now, and my friend still lies next to him while he falls asleep. That's not being a parent - that's being servile. I can't have any respect for that.

Gosh Pictish I am with you.
Its great to hear someone speak some sense. My belief is support and love your children but realise when they are acting up and pushing boundries and act accordingly. If she isnt frightened of something, or is ill then she is just attention seeking.
A thread earlier had a mother of a 3yo full of angst because the 3yo was upset at being given out to that morning