We are being watched !!

[domesticgodessintraining]

A friend just called from the Middle East to say that the bored desperate housewives of Dubai are slagging us off ........

www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=171798

I just read a thread about camel racing - genuine question here: Is this where they make little boys ride camels and it's all very unpleasant? I remember seeing a doc about it? I may be wrong - am just curious.

Flangalina

Yes Im sure they wouldnt want to lose their jobs. You're right it would be better to improve conditions for them, but is that going to happen?

When I said I wouldnt do it, I mean I wouldnt want to leave my children so I would expect another mother to do so.

I would not/couldnt not employ a mother if that meant her children didnt have a mum for 11 months of the year, no matter how good her pay was.

If you want to be a good ethical employer, pay for her to go home once a month/week/fortnightly not once a year.

Matches it was deleted.

Hmm Amber, the thing is that the logical conclusion of that is for those women not to have access to what they deem the best opportunities available to them, because they're mothers. I'd scream blue murder if that happend to me. I don't think its for anyone else to decide a mother shouldn't be away from her children for X amount of time, and not employ her on that basis. Your heart's certainly in the right place, but in trying to help you'd be making matters worse.

This reminds me of a story in the book 'Half the Sun', I think it was. There was a sweatshop in India with terrible conditions, then rightly there was an international outcry. The sweatshop was closed. Problem was, there were no other jobs locally for the women, so they had no income. Some ended up in prostitution. It was right that the awful conditions were stopped. But they'd have been better off getting paid more, not losing their jobs.

none of this is to excuse not paying maids enough to go home only once a year, or those who think that because poor women are realistic and resourceful, they don't miss their kids like we do.

Amberleaf - but the situation is more complicated. The women WANT to traval to another country to earn money to send to their families. The alternative is grim. We cannot judge them by our standards. They would rather not see their child, than that child starve or not be able to go to school. I can completely understand this.

What I cannot bear, is the families that employ these women in some cases, treat them as subhuman almost. Certainly as lesser beings. ONE day off per week, a salary which is a fraction of their household income. Feeling smug as they give them one room and flat screen tv. The labourers who were promised riches and in fact have to live in a compound with poor sanitary facilites and work for NOTHING for years to pay of the debt they ran up by getting the job in the first place. It is TOTALLY unacceptable.

Yes I understand all of that, I just dont like the attitude that because its what 'they' are used to that means its ok to take the piss.

The idea that because their lives back home would be shit without the maids job, that means its ok to act like you're doing them a favour in giving them what should be considered basic pay and conditions.

Me neither. I just don't think harming the maids' few chances to get basic pay and conditions does anything to help them.

Employers who are abusive or steal passports from employees should of course be subject to criminal penalties.

Many of these maids have more disposable income than many working families in the UK with two wages coming in. Can you support your family and extended family back home, pay for your child to go to university, buy land and build your own house. Many of these maids do this, they often out earn professionals in the Philipeans like doctors. Some of them actually choose not to go home and keep the money for the flight instead as going home brings a whole new lot of problems like having to take gifts and money to relatives.

And to say you wouldn't do what they do I'd ridiculous, how do you know what you would do if you were in their position.

Me not wanting to do it was a minor point.

Yes it all sounds wonderful for the maids, all of that makes it all ok. I now understand how it is justified.

I still wouldnt employ a maid. It still wouldnt sit right on my conscience.

Norriscole camel racing with children was banned years ago and fairly large (I believe) sums of compensation were paid to the families of boys who were jockeys.

Now little robots ride the camels.

Sozzledchops is leaning too far the other way, really. These women are not in any way well off compared to Westerners, they're only doing well in comparison to other inhabitants of the poorest countries. Quite a lot of what they're paying for would be available free in the UK- school, care for elderly relatives. And they work longer hours for this money than British women, as well as barely seeing their children. A British woman who'd come to Dubai to earn enough to buy her dream home would live in much better conditions, unless things went very wrong for her.

While this may well be a good gig for a Filipina woman, that's not because it's a good gig in itself. Its because there's a massive shortage of good gigs in the Phillippines.

While I agree with much that is being said about Dubai, it's also worth remembering that the Philippines has a shortage of nurses because we have so many over here propping up our NHS. Those women are leaving their children behind too.

As far as I'm aware those Philippino nurses are paid at the same rate as their British counterparts, which is probably considerably more than they receive as 'maids' in Dubai.

Oh good thank you sara

Maids in Dubai are paid the going rate for maids in Dubai though woolly. The Filippina nurses in the UAE are paid the going rate for nurses in the UAE, which is different to the rate here. Some of those women have no training or skill set but can still earn more than a police chief of a small town at home.

My sister is 'staff' by the way for a very rich english couple here. She doesn't demand a higher % of her employers' wages as they are rich, but has her salary dictated by market forces.

I just hope that the employers are kind and fair for the circumstances.

That site is for twonks.

Guess where I live? I have a maid, she's fabulous...we pay her well and take good care of her. My house is a lovely big concrete box.

Do with me what you will.

Dubai meet up anyone?

I lived in the UAE for a few years. I can honestly say it was the worst time of my life. To see the abuse that goes on there is just disgusting. Everyone is treated differently according to where they are from, Indians, Filipinos and Indonesians being the bottom of the pile while Arabs, Brits and Americans are classed as being at the top. Wages are paid according to passport, even if an Indian guy is more qualified than his British counterpart the British guy can be paid up to three times more just because of where he is from. Filipino maids are treated appallingly, there are some people in the UAE that pay more than the going rate for a housekeeper but generally people will pay between £100 -£250 a MONTH, some of these girls work 12 hour days or longer. They are not allowed days off and most employers (especially Arabs) keep their passports to prevent them from running away.

Houses are also set out into sections according to wealth, you will have areas such as the Springs which accommodate the low paid expat families (rows of terraced houses) then you have the Meadows which is more individual villas for higher paid expats, lastly the is Emirate Hills very large individual villas for wealthy expats and Arabs. This is only one example of how the housing is set up there all the areas are done in this way.

The first thing any expat woman asks you is where do you live? This enables them to ?suss you out? as most expats I met were social climbers; the second question was what does you DH do? Again they will do anything to climb that social ladder as in Dubai it?s not what you know it?s who you know that counts.
I have to say that not everyone is like this but you would be surprised at how many people reinvent themselves once they are in the UAE. There?s a saying that people get off the plane as Mrs Smith once they?re in Dubai they become Mrs Smyth Jones.

Wasta ... this is a Dubai thing! Be it speeding tickets or a court case if you have wasta nothing matters the higher up your connections are the more they can help. I had a neighbour who took over a bottle of Champaign to his next door neighbours, they were having a party on NYE there was drinking and loud music, he had not met his neighbours he wanted to welcome them. The man hosting the party took offence to the man coming over and had him arrested, he stayed in prison for a month !! We later found out that man hosting the party was not married and had single Emirati girls at the party something that is strictly forbidden yet the English guy gets put in Jail for a month.

There are so many other problems the Education system is appalling. If you need to go to the hospital you have to sort out your insurance details before they will treat you even if you are having a heart attack or a baby is having difficulty breathing. The driving is atrocious we saw fatalities from RTA on a daily basis. The DEWA bills were more expensive than all my utility bills from the UK combined, high street stores charge at least 30% more in the UAE for the same products, If you want to go to the beach you have to have a hotel membership and there is absolutely nothing to do once you have the rounds of all the Malls, there is nothing that is free in Dubai you even have to pay to go to the park.

I really can?t understand how people can live there and turn a blind eye to the abuse that goes on in that country and still manage to sleep at night.

Maids in Dubai are paid the going rate for maids in Dubai though woolly.

And do maids come from the US, Britain, other European countries, or UAE? Or is being a maid only something that certain nationalities are employed to do? If the latter, your argument doesn't really stand up. Don't you think the 'going rate' might be set somewhat higher if it wasn't just people from 'third world countries' (for want of better terminology) doing the work?

The point your making seems to be that a maid in London should get the same as a maid in Dubai or HK? Is that what you mean?

My issue with it isn't the wages, but the conditions such as bijou talks about. A quick google shows that there were still slave markets in the 1960's in the UAE. It seems that many of the locals still have that mentality.

Law firms pay according to passports by the way, not only in third world countries but on any posting.

A friend of mine moved to Qutar recently. Both her and her husband work in the oil industry. They decided to get a cleaner partly because it's more or less expected and partly because they had employed one in the last place they were living (NZ).

The cleaner turns up for the interview. She seemed lovely, and was working full time for another family. The friend only wanted her for half a day and asked if that would be OK. The cleaner was happy enough with this. Friend then asked her how much she charged. The cleaner quoted a price. My friend was horrified. She insisted on paying the same amount, proportionally, that she had been paying her cleaner in NZ.

The end result of this is the cleaner earns more in that half day she works for my friend than she does for her full time position.

In the 1960's the UAE was little more than a series of temporary Bedouin tent villages with a few barristi huts on the shores to accommodate the pearl fishermen. Arguments over territory were still being fought by men on horse back and the camel was the main mode of transport so I am not sure referencing what happened during that period is terribly relevant.

Bijou how long ago did you live there? Things are changing rapidly with regard to the employment of maids. The philllipene embassy now stipulates a minimum contract value, visas are not granted without written verrification of the same and of course penalties for employing outside a visa are harsh and seemingly well enforced.

For anyone interested in a western perspective of UAE history and culture diamond in the desert is interesting reading. I think the author is a guardian journo who lived there in the 70's.

AltShift - If that's addressed to me, the point I'm making is that talking about 'going rates' is all very well, but if the only people doing a particular job are third world nationals then essentially you are paying a low rate because they are willing to accept it, not because it reflects the 'value' of the job.

If someone comes to work in the UK as, for example, a nurse, a single rate of pay would be offered for the job regardless of nationality. However, if the only people being employed as 'maids' are from poor countries and the argument being used for low pay is 'it's more than they'd earn in their own country' then the 'going rate' is almost certainly set too low. Put it this way, would other foreign nationals from wealthier countries work for that particular 'going rate'? Or just people from poor countries? Would you be able to live independently on that 'going rate' in Dubai?

Desert barracks miles from anywhere?

I live further from 'anywhere' than many of the labour camps (and no more than five minutes' drive from where a lot more are).

Are soldiers 'shipped off' to barracks? Shipped off just has a completely different connotation to me.

And nobody has to explain to their kids about men having their passports taken off them (which is illegal. It happens, but it is illegal, the employers are not supposed to do it) on the basis that they are standing in a bus queue.

Oddly, the same people who complain about the treatment of the labourers are often the same ones who complain about them being allowed into malls or parks or whatever because they 'stare'.

The monthly salaries differ. An Indian maid?s minimum salary is Dhs1,100 per month, Filipinas should be paid no less than Dhs1,400 and Sri Lanka at Dhs825. Indonesian maids? minimum pay is Dhs800, while Bangladesh its Dhs750 . Ethiopia has no set minimum.

What are the obligations of an employer towards the worker?
A one-way ticket to the employee?s home country must be provided by the boss once the contract is ended and the worker is repatriated. During the tenure, a two-way ticket must be provided once a year to allow the worker to visit during annual leave.
The number of days of annual leave is not stipulated . Neither is the worker?s entitlement to days off.

I left last summer I dont think the rules have changed since then.
It is blatant racism

Bijou, which Dubai did you live in? It isn't where I live.

I am a single mother; I work, I don't have time to hang out with bored expat housewives asking me what my husband does. If such a breed exists

I live in Mirdiff, in a compound of 18 houses with about as many nationalities (including Emirati). The variation in rentals across Mirdiff is enormous. There are families there who are struggling, and those who are very comfortable. Just like most parts of the UK. I really have no idea where you get your 'housing separated by wealth' thing from. I suppose most of the houses in the Springs are similar size so assume similar price; is that what you are talking about?

I went to (a private) hospital when my DD had what turned out to be rotavirus. They were more than happy to attend to her and let me sort out the insurance forms afterwards.

Of course there are free beaches; that part of your post makes no sense. If you want luxury pools and bars and recliners, you have to go to a hotel beach, but if you are happy with just sand you have free options. And to go into a beach park (Jumeirah, Mamzar) which is nicely kept costs next to nothing.

You have to pay to go to the big parks. You don't have to pay to go to the little ones. We regularly go to the park for free. You can go camping/dunebashing/wadi bashing/without paying anything; you can go to places like the Discovery Centre and the Arabian Wildlife Centre for next to nothing (gasp. Sharjah. Shock horror). Or eg Children's City in Creek Park, or everything that is in Mushriff Park (less than 2 pounds for a car full of people)

Some high street stores do that with the charges; others don't. DEWA may be that expensive; I can't remember what I paid in the UK, but the UK doesn't have to desalinate water - it figures that water here would cost more (and after all petrol is a fraction of the price)

The driving is improving, believe it or not - I have been here for 10 years and it is a lot better now than when I arrived (and there are not daily fatalities. There are more than there should be, of course, but you are still exaggerating).

You didn't like it - it doesn't mean you need to present a false picture of it; it has plenty of genuine flaws (again, it is a young country. It is getting there). And there is no need to be sanctimonious vis a vis those who are doing their bit to help things develop in a positive direction.

Okay, everyone ignored my previous post about LGBT relationships, so here it is again, worded differently...

Sexual relations outside of a traditional, heterosexual marriage are a crime. Punishments range from jail time, fines, deportation, and the death penalty. A person may also face forced hormone treatments which may include chemical castration. Adultery is also a crime, and a person convicted of homosexuality may also face charges of adultery if they have a spouse while having sexual relations with a person of the same-sex.

Article 177 of the Penal Code of Dubai imposes imprisonment of up to 10 years on consensual sodomy.

As I asked before, who would want to live in such a place?