We are being watched !!

[domesticgodessintraining]

A friend just called from the Middle East to say that the bored desperate housewives of Dubai are slagging us off ........

www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=171798

Never been to Dubai but lived in another country with similar set up regarding maids. Things is, it is a balance. Many expats, especially western don't agree or feel comfortable with the maid set up as these women can seriously be taken advantage of and under the power of their employer, the majority of whom are local, not expat. Yes, the pay looks bad if you compare to the UK but these women desperately want to work for this pay which can go a long way back in their own country to make a huge difference to their family. If they were paid a minimum wage equal to the UK then the demand for maids would go down drastically and many women would start doing their own housework etc. This wouldn't go down well with these women who need their money to feed and educate their families. The wages are low but many costs are also factored in like accommodation, food, toiletries, phone allowance, flights, medical provision and bonuses. Where I lived the majority of maids were employed by locals who were in run of the mill jobs with relatively low wages and living in the equivalent of council flats. Many maids actually have more disposable income at the end of the month than the average citizen. And most maids would give their eye teeth to work for western expats who generally pay more and offer more in the way of time off and extras. Conditions definitely need to be improved and enforced for these women as most western expats would agree with.

TBH, I enjoyed the freedom at the time and we were lucky to have a lovely lady living with us who jelled with our family and we all quite happily rubbed along thou some people seem to want to refuse to believe this. But now back in the UK I'm glad to have left it all behind and enjoy having my house and family back to myself even if I have to wash my own floors and loos.

Wooly, probably nobody is answering because it is difficult. I think a lot of the time it is a case of 'don't ask don't tell' - certainly used to know a gay couple here who were reasonably open about it, and had come here because the (Arab) homeland of one of the couple was still less gay friendly.

Changing the laws though would be a HUGE thing because of the religious element. Not only would the more strongly Muslim elements locally complain, but they would have difficulty on the 'Arab street'.

It is no answer really, and it does leave people exposed to the risk of an ill wisher making a complaint to the police. But society has to shift enough to make it socially acceptable to change the laws. And again if all that happens is that people sit and harrass them from abroad, I believe the shift will take longer to occur, and it will be seen even more as an 'immoral foreigner' thing.

It is perfectly legal to pay equally qualified and competent employees differently because of their nationality. It is LEGAL to advertise a position specifying the race you wish to employ.

Serious question here - if you or your spouse is employed there how on earth can you look yourself in the mirror knowing you earn what you do because of your passport, not your ability? How can you work alongside colleagues who are as good or better than you at your job, but earn less because they aren't Westerners?

I mean, Jim Crow how are ya.

Would you have moved to 1960s Alabama to take advantage of your skin colour there?

I do understand all that, Desertgirl, but still my question is unanswered. Why would you CHOOSE to live in a country that was so openly discriminatory? Why are people happy to live in a country that doesn't respect basic Human Rights just because it doesn't immediately affect them? I suspect the answer to that is 'money'.

DSS1 worked in Dubai for 3 unhappy months. His stories about the treatment of slave labourers was enough to ensure I never step foot in the place. Not that Dubai is likely to miss the pleasure of my company, I realise. However, I would not live in a country so openly discriminatory either, regardless of how much I earned because actually, it'd be blood money.

Not everyone is happy to look at the poorly paid labourers and sit back with an "I'm alright Jack attitude"

Many, many expats are digging deep and giving not only their money but also their time to help those out who really need it.

Also, not all expats are perfectly coiffed, perfectly manicured Jumeirah Janes who lunch, shop, play tennis and worry about how much money everyone else has got in relation to themselves.

Not really answering the question Gis.

Handing back a tiny portion of your salary as charity is pretty meaningless when the reason you receive that salary is legally-sanctioned discrimination.

The idea that these countries are clueless savages who will only see sense if we go over and coddle them and accept their blood money is bullshit. The only approach that works against apartheid is boycotting.

These countries want to be accepted by the global community. While they continue to legally sanction racism, xenophobia, sexism, and homophobia, and turn a blind eye to slavery, that cannot happen. By CHOOSING to live there and take their money you are giving them that approval. Don't kid yourself you're not.

Would you have been happy to move to Pretoria in the 80s? Alabama in the 60s?

Is it really so different to buying Apple iPod/iPhone/iPads produced by Foxconn? Goods produced for next to nothing in shitty conditions in China?

That's all you have? Whataboutery?

You DO know, then, deep down, how wrong, how indefensible this is. I'm glad. There's hope then.

Whataboutery?

HodMe, I don't earn what I earn because of my passport. I work for a very large local employer who does not discriminate on the basis of nationality (other than by way of its 'Emiratisation' programme; which I believe is wholly justifiable), does not use slave labour, or any of the other things complained about on here.

If you look through history at where people have made a difference, sitting on the other side of the world and moaning (or climbing onto a high horse and claiming that your life decisions are infinitely better than anyone else's) doesn't score highly in how they have achieved those differences.

That's you told GiserableMitt! Hope you feel suitably ashamed and chastised!

Ermm.....yeah?

You're right, desertgirl, boycotting Apartheid was totally ineffective, wasn't it? We should have all moved there instead!

Care to share the name of this super ethical very large company? Or if you're worried even such a very large company might identify you, perhaps another with spequally sterling credentials? There are loads, right?

Spequally? equally

HoldMe, while it is absolutely none of your business, I work for Emirates.

And yeah, right, it was all down to the boycotting.... And there is no racism or discrimination in South Africa any more (oh and anyone who lived there during that time was evil; don't forget that bit)

Incidentally, you have no idea what my life choices are, where I live or have lived, or what I do or don't do politically.

You have chosen to live in a country with legalised racist, xenophobic, sexist, and homophobic discrimination. You chose to do this because the money's good. No one forced you to come on here and talk about it. You chose to defend your choice.

Guess what? Most people wouldn't make that choice. Most people think its really shitty.

The more people who are aware of the awful side of these countries the better. Because it will become more and more unacceptable to work in them, and I am convinced that only global isolation can catalyse the sort of social change that needs to happen. Expats can't sit in office blocks in Bahrain while they watercannon protestors. Etc etc.

HoldMe, you know nothing about what I do or my life choices either. I can assure you it isn't for the money; I could earn what I earn here in the UK. And it isn't for the glitz and glamour; that isn't my life.

You sit there and judge all you like; I'm perfectly aware that this place is not perfect, and yet my conscience is at ease with my own life decisions (including the decision to live here. And if 'most people' think things like that, tough.

HoldMeCloser when did you canvas the opinion of 'most people'. And i'm presuming you mean British expats only?

We only read about the hideous side of life in Dubai but if you read the English press about UK we're just as horrible.

People just do what they need to get by.

Cyprus is in the EU and they have maids as standard over there, they live in, get a set amount of money and have one day off a week. I don't see that pulling apart the people who live in Dubai makes us better or cleverer than them at all.

whilst I'm not for one minute attempting to argue that there are not many aspects of the place that are discriminatory holdme your rant ignores the fact that there are large numbers of individuals particularly from India and Pakistan, but also other arab countries who went to the UAE with nothing and were given an opportunity to, and did in fact, make a huge sucess of their lives.

On the whole discrimination is against the poor rather than a race, not that this is better but lets be clear about what we are talking about.

Most western countries seem to be audited in line with the practices of their countries of origin these days and at a professional level it is increasingly less common to have pay scales dependent on passport.

Western companies

I live in the ME (but not Dubai.) There are plenty of people to argue for and against having full-time maids here - we don't have to go MN to hear it!
Some people are slavedrivers (not many Westerners though from what I can gather) but many are very decent caring empoyers and they will be the first to speak out if they hear someone getting a bit uppity on EPW.com - trust me, I know, I'm on there nearly every day!

Many expats here regularly take food and clothing to the labour camps, and go out of their way to make life a little bit more pleasant for the low paid workers where they can.

But can I just put something into perspective for you re: maids salaries please?

Firstly, just because they live with you does not mean they necessarily work from 6am until 10pm non-stop. It just suits them to live in, (cheaper, and much nicer, cleaner, safer housing) and suits their employers to have them available outside of the normal 9-5 day.

If I were to employ a live-in maid from the Philipines tomorrow I would pay her anywhere between 1200 QR and 2000 QR depending on experience, and my personal needs, e.g., childcare duties, babysitting expectations at night, cooking, etc etc.

So around 1600 is average. (not AE Dirhams here, Riyals, but v.similar exchange rate.) Tax free, remember.

I would also be expected to pay for her accommodation in my house, (so extra hot water, electricity, laundry etc) I'd need to pay for a house big enough to give her a room (and ideally a bathroom) of her own, I'd pay for her phone credit, probably put a TV in her room with a subscription to Philipines TV channels, free use of the internet at agreed times, I'd buy all her food, all her toiletries, I'd pay a few hundred quid to sort out her sponsorship papers and medical tests to get her resident's permit, if she is ill I am expected to pay for her doctor's prescriptions, I'd provide her with clothes to work in, or a clothing allowance, and I'd give her a month off with a paid for flight home every year. That is what is generally expected of most Westerners.

So that 1600 QR is her disposable income. All other expenses are taken care of by me.

If you convert that 1600 QR to Philipines Pesos it is 18,700. The average wage for a qualified school teacher in the Philipines right now is around 10,000 PP. Before tax and living expenses.

HTH

Those figures were per month by the way.

Oh, I see sozzledchops has already said most of that for me.