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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to wear make up and high heels

262 replies

WheresTheCat · 31/01/2012 11:42

Harumph. Have just skimmed through Julie Birchill's article in the weekend papers (I know - I'm running behind!) Apparently women only wear heels and make up as we are slaves to men.

I am so fed up with all the judgements about what women wear. Surely we should wear what we want as long as we're happy. For me it's high heels and make up, for my BF it's trainers and jeans. It doesn't matter.

And, Julie Birchill, it doesn't make me a bad person/anti-feminist/unintelligent if I choose to dress the way I do.

OP posts:
NorthernWreck · 01/02/2012 14:43

Men never chased down mammoths!
Think about it logically: Look at the puported size of a mammoth.
Even Hulk Hogan is going to have trouble actually going one to one with that thing!
No, no, caveman (and probably any women that wernt breastfeeding at the time) would have to fell that beast using brain power, a long stick and a few carefully aimed rocks.
That doesn't take much brawn.
If you look at tribes that still live pretty pre-agriculture lives, the men and the women don't look all that different. Both are athletic and muscular.
And often the men wear losta jewelery.

Obvs, the hip to waist ratio and good skin and looking fertile are important to both genders, and women need more body fat to be fertile, but the male/female look that became so all pervading around the 1950's is a massive exageration of nature.

yellowraincoat · 01/02/2012 14:45

Oh really carmenelectra. Don't you wish those ugs would just cover their hideous faces up so they look as beautiful as you? Hmm

Interesting post NorthernWreck.

boredandrestless · 01/02/2012 15:34

I always feel better if I put a bit of make up on (concealer, foundation, blush, lip gloss), but more often than not don't bother.

High heels are a no no for me, they are uncomfortable and painful and..... on me - dangerous! I agree with the poster who said she associates them with a modern day version of chinese foot binding.

Kayano · 01/02/2012 15:37

I am currently wearing purple eyeshadow with green under my lower lash line

And lavender Barry M lipstick...

To go visit MIL Wink
DH will be mortified Wink

doesn't care pointless post

I am wearing flats though 38 weeks today lol

yellowraincoat · 01/02/2012 15:41

I think comparing wearing high heels to Chinese foot binding is a bit crass to be honest. For a start, women have a choice to wear high heels. Yes, they damage your feet but not anywhere near the extent foot binding does (their feet were frequently rotting away under the binding).

I suppose part of their appeal is that men like them - but as I said upthread, they also make me feel taller and more on a par with others as I am short. They mark me out as an adult and not a little girl (because although I'm 29 I still get IDd).

floralsanddresses · 01/02/2012 15:51

I don't 'need' make up as such but I like it. I don't need high heels being 5ft10 but I love them too. I like the way I look with or without these things but I choose to wear them as I want to.

YANBU. Julie will tell us we're brainwashed though.

NorthernWreck · 01/02/2012 16:53

As far as I can recall Julie B wears loads of eyeliner and heels! I guess she is paid to write "controversial" stuff that generates media. Eh voila!

SusanneLinder · 01/02/2012 17:11

Well I always thought feminism was about choice for women. If we want to wear make up and heels,then so what? If we choose to wear jeans and trainers then we can. I do both,depending on what mood I am in. I do it for me,not for a man/my husband-who couldn't care less anyway.

I really don't see the issue. I don't feel like a Stepford Wife cos I wear heels, nor do I feel that I am part of the sisterhood cos I neglected to shave my legs/pits that day.:o

limitedperiodonly · 01/02/2012 21:52

yellowraincoat I don't remember seeing Michael Fassbender's penis in Hunger.

The combination of extreme weight loss and excessive winkleage may have dazzled me though.

yellowraincoat · 01/02/2012 22:26

Watch Shame limitedperiodonly.

You can't miss it.

Whatmeworry · 01/02/2012 22:38

As far as I can recall Julie B wears loads of eyeliner and heels! I guess she is paid to write "controversial" stuff that generates media. Eh voila!

Bingo. Also, her best (media) days are past I think.

redwineandchocolate · 02/02/2012 00:09

I'm not afraid to describe myself as a staunch feminist, I really CARE about feminism, and I wear high heels and make-up. I take umbrage with people who tell me I cannot be both feminine and feminist because I believe I CAN, and feminists and people who care about women's rights should stick together - not slag each other off. When women moan about things like this they are, yet again, their own worst enemy. If you really care about feminism and women's rights you shouldn't spend your time insulting other women because of the choices they make, which can be influenced by a multitude of factors.

kickassangel · 02/02/2012 02:02

I also think that femininity and feminism don't have to be at odds with each other. And of course we are sexual beings who wish to attract and be attracted.

BUT what we define as attractive is socially defined. If it were a hard wired part of evolution, then there would be universal agreement across time and space, there hasn't been. Height, weight, color etc have all had different times and places when they were popular. Each society has a different definition of beauty, which is how we know that it's a social construct.

Wear what you want, but be aware that society has values which you wil be assessed by

If you really thnk women love the big strong men cos biology says so, read the Frailty Myth.

SlinkingOutsideInFrocks · 02/02/2012 02:06

I think people get very defensive over this issue - seeing their choice to wear make-up and heels, to beautify and improve themselves as an indicator of shallowness or a superficial interest in frippery, when it's not that at all.

It's just - as is often the way when looking at the world through a feminist lens - looking at the bigger picture and at the impact not on individual women, but on womenkind as a whole.

I think you have to have your head wilfully stuck in the sand not to see that women, en mass, wearing make-up and trying to improve their appearance (in a way that men don't) puts pressure on all other women to look a certain way and to strive for, or measure up, to an ideal which gets harder and harder to reach. I say this as someone who wears make-up and actively likes to look my best, and is part of that viscous circle myself.

Every individual is free to do what they want and make the choices that they need to make - God knows I do - but you just can't deny the knock on effects that decisions made by society as a whole, affect society as a whole.

I know I'm not a shallow person so anyone who says I am is barking up the wrong tree - their problem, not mine and I wouldn't take offence as I know it's not true. But I'm not going to deny that buying into the make-up and beautifying thing myself impacts more than just myself and perpetuates pressure on other women and especially young girls.

I don't really get why people refuse to acknowledge that, beyond seeing it as a criticism of their own choices as I say at the beginning of my post. But, yanno, why take the criticism? Have faith if your own choices and the reasons for them. :)

ThePoorMansBeckySharp · 02/02/2012 02:54

"you might not feel under pressure to wear make up but you are putting pressure on everyone else by doing it."

People do write the most utter shit sometimes.

CheerfulYank · 02/02/2012 03:06

Kayano what color eye shadow should I wear?!

I can never figure it out! I think I have a pic on my profile...I'm pale with dark hair and oddly pale blue eyes. Help! :)

Walkinginwonderland · 02/02/2012 06:13

High heels have always made me feel like I'm wearing a costume.
Makeup is a marvellous tool, I used to be able to create a beautiful illusion with it.
Big boots gal am I.

Whatmeworry · 02/02/2012 07:40

It's just - as is often the way when looking at the world through a feminist lens - looking at the bigger picture and at the impact not on individual women, but on womenkind as a whole.

There is an even bigger picture, ie the great human game of attracting the best mate you can.

FlangelinaBallerina · 02/02/2012 08:01

Fabulous post by SlinkingOutsideInFrocks. Of course we can all wear whatever we want- I like makeup- but let's please not delude ourselves that our ideas of what's attractive somehow came to us as individuals in a vacuum, and aren't remotely influenced by wider society. Or that the rules are the same for women as for men, or that what we wear never has any impact on any other women. This is true for clothes, makeup, hair removal etc.

None of this is to say you can't be a feminist if you wear makeup, I do and I am. I wouldn't judge another woman for wearing it either. I don't even think it makes one a bad feminist. But I would judge a woman if she lied to herself and me about the context. That's the distinction.

SlinkingOutsideInFrocks · 02/02/2012 08:33

There is an even bigger picture, ie the great human game of attracting the best mate you can.

Yes, which is why you always see loads of men queuing up to buy the latest Guerlain miracle complexion enhancer, having their highlights and lowlights touched up, trying to find just the right foundation that melds seamlessly into their skin tone and blusher that contours and highlights just so, the perfect concealer to hide those blemishes - so many more of them now you're the wrong side of 40 - and of course the huge market for buying pants which push up and enhance their arse cheeks. Wink

Keep telling yourself its exactly the same and maybe one day it will be so.

Flange - speaking my brains.

Whatmeworry · 02/02/2012 08:41

Yes, which is why you always see loads of men queuing up to buy the latest Guerlain miracle complexion enhancer, having their highlights and lowlights touched up, trying to find just the right foundation that melds seamlessly into their skin tone and blusher....

Men attract women in different ways than women attract men.

Keep telling yourself its exactly the same and maybe one day it will be so

That humans strive to attract the best mate is so, it always has been so, and always will be so.

C'mon, this is pretty basic stuff - are you really in that much denial?

limitedperiodonly · 02/02/2012 08:53

I agree with kick and slinking.

I wear make-up and heels and go to the gym but I admit it's because I want to look like a 'better' version of myself and 'better' or 'as good' as other women.

It costs money and time and is definitely a pressure on me and other women but I'm reasonably content with it.

When I pop out to get some food or do other mundane things I wear flat shoes and a bare face, I haven't noticed any horrified looks.

Beefy men don't necessarily do things for women. Loads of women are drooling over puny Eddie Redmayne atm. Some women like other women. Freaks of nature, probably Wink

beautifulpeagreenboat · 02/02/2012 09:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SlinkingOutsideInFrocks · 02/02/2012 09:17

Men attract women in different ways than women attract men.

And the understatement of the century award goes to... Grin

Who's in denial about people wanting to attract other people? Confused

Funnily enough, most women on this thread are saying that they do all this for themselves; not to attract mates. In fact they're vehemently denying it has anything to do with men at all. Wink

But no, apparently it is actually all to do with getting the best man possible. Interesting...

Oops, I think you've grabbed hold of the wrong end of the argument. :)

PopcornBiscuit · 02/02/2012 09:28

But how many prehistoric women wore makeup and high heels? Yet they still seem to have managed to reproduce!

"Society and, specifically the media haven't created this ideals of beauty they are just tapping into our pre-historic sub conciousness."

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