To want to wear make up and high heels

[WheresTheCat]

Harumph. Have just skimmed through Julie Birchill's article in the weekend papers (I know - I'm running behind!) Apparently women only wear heels and make up as we are slaves to men.

I am so fed up with all the judgements about what women wear. Surely we should wear what we want as long as we're happy. For me it's high heels and make up, for my BF it's trainers and jeans. It doesn't matter.

And, Julie Birchill, it doesn't make me a bad person/anti-feminist/unintelligent if I choose to dress the way I do.

I also wonder why it is considered such a bad thing to want to look good to men/other women.

If it is the ONLY thing you're interested in/you spend hours on your hair and make-up every day and feel unhappy about it/you go out with people who don't want to see you when you're not done up, then yes it's a problem.

But honestly, we're sexual beings and there is nothing wrong with wanting people to fancy you.

Men do stuff to look attractive too - it's not as much as some women, but most still shave every day/do their hair etc.

I'd say anyway, that the majority of women don't wear make-up or particularly fashionable clothes. People talk about this societal pressure of looking good, but I rarely see people dolled up to the nines, and I live and work in central London, which is where you'd expect to see a lot of that...

oh lord change the record mad feminisit does damage to the feminist cause, well guess what all these so crazy women have not done any damage because changes have and are still taking place (not quick enough) it is those that opose or feat the feminist cause that hold women back. Julie Burchill is her own person with her own opinion you do not have to be a feminist to agree with her, we do not all thankfully agree on everything apart from equality

i love wearing make up especially heavy eyliner always have and heels, i like fishnet tights and pencil skirts, i like chiffon blouses, i like jeans and biker boots whatever i wear i still have the same opinion and i am still a feminist how others jusge me to be is down to them

I went from long hair to short spiky hair, and to be quite honest, there is no way I would go out to the pub or for a meal without wearing make up. For a start I would only feel half dressed if I got dressed up, and didnt put any make up on. And (no offence here but I am sure I will cause some).. without any make up, my hair is so short that I look like a butch lesbian, which really is not the image I want to cultivate!!

I spend my days wearing trainers, work hoodie, and jeans, and work in a very male environment too, so I have to do something that brings out my female side!

It's a bit of a tricky one.

When I wear make up and dress up, I feel better about myself.

But why?

Because attractive women are generally valued more highly in our society than unattractive women?

Because I have sexual power over men?

Because I have more sexual power than other women?

Men do stuff to look attractive too - it's not as much as some women, but most still shave every day/do their hair etc.

Not as much? not in this house.. it takes me 5 mins to shower, 5 mins to put on make up, and 5 mins to blow dry my hair... throw on clothes and I am ready to face the world.

Him... 15 mins shower.. 20 mins shave... 15 mins moisturising face and gelling hair.. (wont add in the next 15 minutes of frantic searching for lost clothes and blaming me for losing them.... )...

My husband takes the same time as me to get ready Squeaky. I can't wait til he goes grey like Hugh Laurie

"So not all make up has to be full on in your face orange skin and false eye lashes."

I agree. My make up look just evens out my skin tone. You can't actually tell I am wearing foundation as it is exactly the same colour as my skin. Isn't that what all the make gurus advise anyway? I wear a touch of blusher because I am very pale and don't want the "you look tired/are you OK" comments either. I don't bother with eye make up as I wear glasses and you can't really see my eyes and (stealth boast) I naturally have long dark eyelashes anyway. I just finish off with a lipstick because I have very pale lips.

My "heels" are 2" high and I only wear them for work. I can't walk in anything higher than that, and I am tall so very high heels would make me tower over my friends which I don't want.

I wear trainers or work boots all day long. If I go out, I want to feel as if I am dressed up, for me, not for anyone else, but yes, I will admit I also want my husband to notice I have made some effort. He does exactly the same for me though. I wouldnt expect to go on a night out with him wearing his work clothes either.

If I am going out with my MIL for lunch, I would want to look like I had made a bit of effort, rather than look how I do when I am going to Sainsburys or onto a building site.

kayano my husband isnt likely to go grey, as he so often gloats when I am moaning about my regrowth of silver.. :)

I think it's important to "look smart" for work and social events, as Squeaky says and I think that's how I justify it to myself most of the time. I am "making an effort" with my appearance and this is just how women do it.

What the fuck does Julie Birchill know? The woman is a bitter and sad hypocrite.

I wear make up AND heels. Not an excessive amount, no foundation or heavy powder, just mascara and a bit of blusher, although so what if I did trowel it on, no one's business what I do to my face.

Make up and heels make me feel good.

I also put make up on if I'm feeling ill at home, it?s not for anyone?s benefit but mine; doing so makes me instantly feel brighter. My grandmother is nearly 90 and registered blind. She still likes getting her hair done and wearing make up, its for her own personal pride, she dresses impeccably still too ? do you really think that is for the benefit of the opposite sex?

All you miseries who get so irked about women who wear make up should try it; it might cheer you up.

i think that sensitivity hits on some of the concerns.

Presentation (clothes, make-up, hair, style etc) ARE all symbols that refelct something about ourselves. Even if it's just that we can only afford/want George from Asda. People can see that (not the actuall brand, but the effort, style etc) & it does make an impression.

We have social mores of how people 'should' look. Those of you saying that you wish to look taller - why? Because society tells you that tall = power. Attractive = power. Rich = power.

We all know these things and when we leave the house we are sending out messages.

I work in a school where almost any kind of clothing etc is fine. How students dress very clearly sends out a message about which group they hang out with, the money their parents have, their sports/drama activities etc.

Why women see high heels as 'attractive' is because we have absorbed the norm that tall, long legs = good. therefore we (some of us) like heels. men are meant to be naturally taller. those that aren't often have comments made (maybe behind their backs) or if they wear built up heels they may also get comments.

So, even when you say you do it for yourself, you are still conforming to what a patriarchal society has 'decreed' is attractive & wanting to feel that way.

In Mauritania, fat is beautiful here . If wanting to be 'slender' was natural, then there wouldn't be that situation in that country. What it shows is that people conform to the norms of their socieites. In a patriarchal society, the images of women are therefore subject to the views of the patriarchy. All of us are part of that society. Whether we acquiesce, or defy, we still continue to respond to the messages and norms of our society.

I agree with howabout...

It's not really anyone else's business is it?

If you're not hurting anyone, whatever someone feels about another person wearing make-up, is their problem.

I refuse to have the joy sucked out of life because my lipgloss may offend someone.

(Before you jump, it's not the only joy...But it's a lovely one!)

Those of you saying that you wish to look taller - why?

I can think of a multitude of reasons..

but mainly when I was in an office it was so that I was speaking face to face with people rather than having to look UP at them..

I personally wouldn't wear heels to look taller, mostly because even with an extra 2-3 inches, I'd still be pretty short. Especially compared to most men, and I've mostly worked in male-dominated environments. Also I find heels very uncomfortable and annoying, it just isn't worth it for me.

I can understand why someone would though, it can be quite awkward in some situations being much shorter than everyone else. I bet lots of shorter men would wear high heels if it was considered socially acceptable (as it is they often wear shoes with thick soles/chunky heels to add a bit more height).

Ah, well, there are heels....and heels.

Those ones you see young girls staggering around town in-in my day only strippers wore shoes that insanely high.
They do literally hobble the wearer.

BUT I have very many pairs of comfy heels (3-5 inches) usually fairly chunky, and when i wear them, with some red lippy, I feel like Rosalind Russel in His Girl Friday.
I stride about, clip clop purposefully at light speed, and frighten men in my high shoes.
My ds loves my heels too. He puts them on and goes "I'm just going out"!

And it's not make up. It;'s WAR PAINT!

Interesting discussion, I remember it from the late seventies/early eighties, and I thought the general conclusion then was that women should do whatever they wanted ..

I'm in my early fifties and wear make-up every day. It makes me look (a bit) younger and prettier and that makes me feel good. It takes five minutes to apply.. two minutes more in the evening if I slap on a bit more before going out.

Doesn't stop me being a feminist in any way. Doesn't lead to me judging anyone else who prefers not to wear make-up either. Honestly don't think it makes much of a difference to anyone except me.

"BUT I have very many pairs of comfy heels (3-5 inches)"

You call that comfy

Anything higher than 2" has me reaching for support.

I still liking the Vitalumiere Aqua LeQueen. Thanks for the tip

Harumph. Have just skimmed through Julie Birchill's article in the weekend papers (I know - I'm running behind!) Apparently women only wear heels and make up as we are slaves to men.

I thought it was barefoot and pregnant? Or was it vajazzled? Or Brazlianed?

I think no matter what you wear (except a parachute suit?) or paint on or silicon-seal in, there will be another woman popping up to hector you that you are enslaving yourself to The Menz:)