To want to wear make up and high heels

[WheresTheCat]

Harumph. Have just skimmed through Julie Birchill's article in the weekend papers (I know - I'm running behind!) Apparently women only wear heels and make up as we are slaves to men.

I am so fed up with all the judgements about what women wear. Surely we should wear what we want as long as we're happy. For me it's high heels and make up, for my BF it's trainers and jeans. It doesn't matter.

And, Julie Birchill, it doesn't make me a bad person/anti-feminist/unintelligent if I choose to dress the way I do.

I wanted to for many reasons.. I wanted to feel grown up, I wanted to express my individuality too. I was never one to follow the crowd, and I loved looking different. Make up helped me to do that.

I would get the piss ripped out of me at times for my style, but I didnt care, as I was happy with it.

My mate wanted to look like Phil Oakey from the Human league and copied his look... she stood out from the crowd too!

Make up doesnt have to be about looking like everyone else, it can be about looking individual.

I never wanted to be the same as everyone else.. still dont

In every species evolution dictates that the stronger, more colourful, more symmetrically featured etc etc are the ones that (generally) get on better (i.e., from the more basic level, more likely to attract a mate, higher up in pack hierarchy etc). Bear in mind, forms of make up have been around for thousands of years.

So let's say women stop wearing make up. Some women will still be more attractive than others and, whatever your views on the rights and wrongs of it, they are likely to be treated differently because of it. That's just the way human nature has evolved.

So is it such a bad thing that for those of us who weren't destined to have perfect skin, full lips, big eyes with long eyelashes etc (all things that we are genetically pre-disposed to find attractive) get a helping hand from a bit of slap?

I don't wear make up, even for my wedding, and rarely wear high heels. It is nothing to do with my feminist principles (I have very few). It is entirely because I can't be arsed wearing makeup and I can't walk in high heels. It's all too much hassle.

Because I find applying it to be fun and an extension of my personality

I don't work in a hall of mirror. Ironically I work in a call centre where I never see the people I am dealing with

You know whats funny? I probably put more make up on when going out with other women than with my dh. I wear heels more with them too.

But I don't get cosmetic fake boobs, just don't get it..........mind you its probably because I have some boobage that I think like this, clothes don't fit properly and men make comments. Why would you want to do that to yourself?

To clarify my post, I was not at all suggesting that all women should be/feel compelled to wear make up!

entropygirl, if you don't care what you look like, why don't you just go out wearing a bin bag? It's not indecent, after all.

We all conform to social norms in one way or another and the only judgy person I see here is you.

Wear make-up, don't wear make-up. It really isn't a huge deal.

We all know part of it is about looking good so that people fancy us, but that is human nature. We WANT to be fancied. There's nothing WRONG with wanting people to fancy you.

How ridiculous to think that make-up leads on to surgery. Like some kind of gateway drug.

As for heels, honestly, I feel more comfortable in a pair I have than any other shoes. I am tiny and wearing heels makes me feel like I am at least close to being of equal height to others. I LIKE that.

Some days I have the make-up trowelled on. Some days I don't bother brushing my hair. Both ways I feel equally confident and happy and get equal love from the people around me. I think the vast majority of people have the same experience.

I dont see the attraction of breasts which are obviously enhanced (as opposed to implants which have a natural breast shape)
but clearly some do find them attractive or there wouldnt be a demand for them

I agree that it is nice to feel taller when wearing high heels (I'm 5 ft 2) I just cant walk in them I'd make an arse of myself by falling over!

You need a pair with a big old platform too, lovesadirtylie. And, sadly, they need to be fucking expensive.

I've realised this is the only solution with heels.

I'm 5ft1, and it is SO nice to not feel mini.

Whew - now have finally read the whole thread -

Just looking around my office 4 men and 6 women, 2 of the women wearing makeup (not heavy) everyone else not. No Heels. Interesting. I am one not wearing either today but my ability to put on make up is fully entwined with my ability to get myself out of bed in the morning

On a personal note I am more aware if I have spilt something down my front (a common occurence) and find that I think people are judging me on this alone!

"ahh well if you enjoy doing it then fine. Actually if it was face painting I think I could get into it. Imagine rocking up to work with a tiger face! Awesome! If you are wearing make up to cover up what you actually look like then I think you are saying to the world in general that, a) I think looks are really important b) it's worth spending wasting time looking as good as possible (although you could always go for a face lift instead) c) I don't like the way I was born looking. I think all of those messages are damaging to individuals and to society."

Entropygirl I find your comments so "worthy" and joyless. You seem to want to suck out all the pleasure and joy out of someone wanting to make the most of their appearance. I don't what is wrong with wanting to look good. Are you suggesting that all women wear no make up, scrape back their hair and wear shapeless clothes. What a dull world that would make.

"I really look like shit because I cant be bothered, I HATE shopping and I was born looking like shit."

You don't sound very self confident. You feel that you look ugly therefore all women have to look the same as you to make you feel better about yourself?

Kayano, so if it is the applying bit that is about you, you would presumably be just as happy to apply it and then wash it all off again straight away, because the wearing it in front of other people is irrelevant?

I wear makeup so that I look a certain way in front of other people. If I wasn't going to leave the house, I wouldn't bother.

Sometimes I do put make up on even if I'm not leaving the house. Especially lipstick because mine smells like cucumber and is really soft.

YRC, yes, I'd put on nice smelling skin softening things just for myself, in the house.

entropy you didn't answer my question.

I never wear make up if no-one else will see me, I put plenty of stuff on my face, various moisturisers, because my skin feels dry otherwise.
but no make up

Some people wear make up to cover up bad skin and to make them feel more confident. I do this. I do this for ME not for anyone else. I have to feel confident and without make up I would not even have half the little amount of confidence I do have. As for heels, I agree, the modern form of foot binding.

Clothes of sand

I have often done that may times. Done
Makeup in the house, took it
Off, put it on to try a different
Look...

Do a half and half face to play with colours and 'looks'

However if I'm going to work I apply my makeup in the car (DH works in same place and drives) and it relaxes me on way in.
I wouldn't have time to take it off.

I have however been to work a lot of times without makeup

I mean... Why do people worry about my face/ makeup? That's my job

I do have about 5 black eyeliners
Though. I really need to have a clear out....

I wear make up for work mainly because I'm very pale, and I can't be doing with the "are you okay, you look a bit peaky?" comments. Likewise with heels, I love them anyway but when I couldn't wear then when I was pregnant I got "oh Disco, I didn't realise you were so dinky!". All. The. Time.

I do feel better with make up and heels on, but it's not the end of the world if I don't wear either. Interestingly, I was talking to a colleague once about make up (she's a lot younger than me and wears a lot of make up) and she hadn't noticed I was wearing any. So not all make up has to be full on in your face orange skin and false eye lashes.

I can honestly say that I do not wear make-up for men. I do it totally as aesthetically pleasing thing for myself. I love the fact that I can conceal things I don't like and enhance the features I do like. Ditto with hair colour. I dye my hair because grey hair is associated with being old and at 30-odd I dont feel ready to be grey.

I agree that high heels are devilish, though. I do wear them occasionally when i go out, simply because they are often the only footwear that seems 'dressy' enough. But they hurt, I can't walk in them properly, and I do wish they didn't exist. But the alternatives are all grim and you have to work with what is available, surely?

I used to like JB a lot in the 90s. She was refreshingly honest and very funny. But she has morphed into a bitter, judgemental person in her old age. And hs eis no longer funny,

I'm a made-up, heel - wearing feminist.

I love to dress up and look good but at the same time can see that I have been brainwashed into thinking I have to look a certain way to be seen as "attractive" and by buying into it I'm doing more damage than good.

I am very aware that I'm conflicted on this matter and will have to look into it some more.

For someone not interested in judging anyone who chooses to wear make-up, entropygirl, you aren't half throwing in some choice passive aggressive specials.