To think the carer of this girl with learning disabilities needs telling!

[mummy2stan]

I take my son to a activity centre a couple of times a week and there is a young woman in there all the time who is clearly mentally handicapped, whilst I have no problem at all with this I do have one with the so called carers that are with her. Two weeks ago whilst my 18 month old son was sat in a high chair having his lunch, the girl came over started pinching his cheek and saying BOO really loudly and in his face, my son is a shy boy and isn't good with strangers anyway so at first he just stared and then after about 5 BOOS started to cry, I smiled politely at the carer who was stood with the girl saying ......gently.... Gently now.... And she did nothing to stop her until he was crying his heart out at which she then pulled the girl away. And then yesterday I watched as the girl followed a 2 year old around saying ... You've been naughty .... You've been naughty... Till the 2 year old got to her mother clearly upset, then the girl proceeded to try to pick her up, pulling her away from her mother, and all the while the carer is stood beside her saying nothing!!!! Now. Whilst I understand this girl may well have the mental age of 5 she is intact at least 20 yrs old and I don't think she should be allowed to behave this way towards other children. If she knows no wrong in it, then the carers should stop it before it makes other children cry! Why should we accept it because she's disabled? I feel I may have to speak to the manager if she approaches my son again because I take him there so he can interact with other children, not be pestered and scared by another adult. Once again my problem is not with the girl as such, more the people who are supposed to be watching her. Am I wrong to complain if she upsets him?

I was a conference on autism. A couple of the delegates had high functioning autism themselves. Obvious enough in some cases to be spotted right away (and really given the conference, there was a clue in there somewhere). One young man with autism became very confused by the dinner queue and managed to push his way to the front. He was clearly a bit agitated and selected the wrong end. Everyone could see what was going on so left him to it, except the person serving the food who got really stroppy. Luckily the man didn't appear to notice, but FFS. It really shouldn't have been that difficult to work out what was going on.

saintlyjimjams the reason I get shouted at most often is because when people are irritated with me (ie most of the time) I emotionally shut down from them. Nothing I can do about it, it's an automatic autistic response. Being 'ignored' sends them ballistic.

[Hands Klad a paddle and climbs into the canoe]

Always on hand to help.

[Decides canoe isn't moving fast enough and begins poking Klad to make her paddle faster]

Don't Kungfu, I don't want to fall in. I'm scared of sharks.

When you have had that phrase directed at your child AS an insult in the past, then tell me that you would EVER be happy with it.

Oh yes ds1 does that. He has been tutted at, glared at, told to fuck off, screamed at and he doesn't pay them any attention at all. It confuses the hell out of them!

Weirdly though he just seems so much more likely to irritate someone when he's actually really doing nothing at all. When he is kicking off people don't seem to mind! It's teeny tiny little things that seem to set people off - things that really don't affect them at all.

People are odd. If I ever get that uptight, take me outside and shoot me.

squeakytoy but your MIL's friend will offend someone when she uses it.
I never understand why on mn when people are told a term to do with disability is wrong or offensive, why people have to insist otherwise.
is it so hard to just say OK. and use another term?

I have always accepted old people will use crap terms, or just be wrong, my MIL talks to dd like she is a baby and omg every visit will say "oooh she is listening to every thing you say" as if dd can't understand!!
but she is 85 so i let her off. but if a younger person said it I would pull them on it,

@HuntyCat. The difference is - with respect at least to "paki" and "nigger", queer I'm not so sure - that these terms have never been anything other than offensive and it would not be possible for someone to use them in good faith. If someone says "nigger" you know he means to offend.

Whereas "mentally handicapped" was not offensive 20 years ago because the connotations of the word have changed, so someone with good intentions but not much interaction with disability could very well use it in good faith.

It's not the word that's offensive, it's the attitude it betrays. In the case of paki, the attitude is clear. In the case of mental handicap, not so much.

Sharks don't like pandas. Well-known fact.

Anyway, aren't we still behind your sofa after a previous thread? I don't remember ever coming out.

Mike Oliver was a campaigner who wanted the social aspect of disability to be challenged so he wasn't just a medical term. His saying was that his medical condition didn't handicap him, societies set up did. Language has always been a key in changing opinions, it was used cleverly when used against the disabled, 'life without life,' stating the negative not the positive, focusing on what they cannot do etc, the non-disbaled people don't, why should people who are disabled.

I accept not everyone is educated about disability but there are enough forums on line to find out information.

www.disabilitynow.org.uk/have-your-say/guest-column/s...

Anyway, aren't we still behind your sofa after a previous thread? I don't remember ever coming out.

So you're the phantom chocolate thief.

[crawls away under sofa leaving trail of chocolate crumbs]

'Nigger' was NOT originally an insult - it was derived from the country name of Nigeria, as a description. The connotations of the word have changed. And yes, to those who have dc with learning difficulties, the attitude that emanates from people who use the term 'mentally handicapped' IS clear.

I cannot and will not accept it when someone uses that terminology. And it isn't a 'metally handicapped person', as that reduces her to the sum total of being her disability, and not a person. As you will note - I have said my DD has LD's. Not she IS an LD person... the difference is subtle but HUGE IMO. As again, I am a PERSON with epilepsy, NOT an 'epileptic' IYSWIM.

Kirsty , yes that girl.damn well should have been on the bus.

Hth

I agree with the posters who have pointed out that whilst OPs terminology is outdated and considered offensive, some people have been better able to point this out than others. There has been a really nasty undertone to some of the posts to OP, uncalled for.

My DH is a support worker for a young guy with learning disabiliites, who at 21 probably has the mental age of a 4 year old. He is one of the support workers there (they support him in his own home) who take him out e.g cinema, runs in the car (which he loves) as my DH says some are scared of others reactions and being unable to deal with his behaviour. Thankfully my DH is very good at his job and can deal with things as they arise appropriately e.g client has a fascination with people hair and like to touch it, so often reaches out in the cinema to try and touch the persons hair - which would give someone a right fright. He deals with it, and doesnt stop taking client out.

But newer staff perhaps dont have the confidence and feel they have the skills, at the end of the day its about training and experince for them. So whilst OP should have said something to the girl concerned and the carer to, I can understand why she may have felt that she had to be so careful as to not offend. I dont think asking for advice in this sitaution makes a "horrid" post as someone has claimed.

Yes Camper...we do...but we don't have to teach them. That's what carers (or P.As) are for.

squeakytoy but your MIL's friend will offend someone when she uses it.

She has been the main carer for her daughter for 36 years now. Why should she have to change the words she has always used.

She is heavily involved with Mencap, and particularly adults with severe disabilities, and her life has revolved around her daughter and her daughter's needs for 36 years, so I think she has a bloody good understanding of the difficulties that people with these problems face.

i get you, Squeaky

Kirsty, I'm not sure there is an offensive term that hasn't been acceptable at some point throughout history.

Birds, the social model of disability is great, very interesting. A few people on this thread should look it up!

Pagwatch your post made me feel sad too, but surely that's getting to the heart of this thread. Until adults with learning difficulties are looked after by people who understand how to look after them and help them function within society, then attitudes will never really change.

If the carer of the young woman described by the OP had come up and said to her gently 'Little children don't like to be pinched, look,why don't you stroke his face' and apologised to the mother, the OP would have had a completely different experience and reaction. Perhaps they would have struck up a conversation, perhaps the carer would have explained why the young woman was pinching, perhaps the OP would have referred to her as 'mentally handicapped' and the carer would have gently corrected her terminology. And there we have a lovely lesson for both parent and young child on how to treat and respect an adult with a learning disability.

Ok, I know I'm painting a rose-tinted picture, but tolerance and understanding is only generated by tolerance and understanding. The carer treating the woman as if she wasn't her responsibility and ignoring what was going on just exacerbates the attitude you describe Pag.

The advice to talk to the girl/woman/lady is good, but on the other hand, how many threads are there about whether or not it's good or rude to correct another (NT) child that is bothering your child?

MissM, really like your post!

I disagree actually chas. The carer's role is to care for that person - they can't necessarily be expected to teach that person how to act in every social situation, surely? Maybe their (the carer's) sense of boundaries are different to yours. Maybe some children like being booed at.

I am not sure I'm making much sense, but you said that you didn't see why the OP should have to "engage with strangers and help them to learn to play with her child" and I don't really understand this attitude. Some people without learning difficulties don't know how to play with kids. Sometimes people need to be taught stuff by the wider community. It's like you want to walk round in your own little bubble.

OK, fair dos for the origins of "nigger" - let's say "haven't been inoffensive within our lifetime".

I'll repeat what I said in my first post though - when I was volunteering to help with disabled children as a teenager I was told that I should use the term "mentally handicapped". It's a bit harsh to infer extreme prejudice from the use of a term which was not only acceptable but actually de rigueur not that long ago. It's more reasonable for a term which was last acceptable in the eigthteenth century (just guessing).

I know dutchy but in part that's informing my view on this. Someone pinches my baby's face, I am going to ask them to stop. I will moderate how I do that to ensure it's appropriate (gently with another 18 mo, still gently but perhaps more firmly with the 7 yo who really should know better, gently with the woman with LD's and offering a solution, all guns blazing with a grown-up who should know better).