To think the carer of this girl with learning disabilities needs telling!

[mummy2stan]

I take my son to a activity centre a couple of times a week and there is a young woman in there all the time who is clearly mentally handicapped, whilst I have no problem at all with this I do have one with the so called carers that are with her. Two weeks ago whilst my 18 month old son was sat in a high chair having his lunch, the girl came over started pinching his cheek and saying BOO really loudly and in his face, my son is a shy boy and isn't good with strangers anyway so at first he just stared and then after about 5 BOOS started to cry, I smiled politely at the carer who was stood with the girl saying ......gently.... Gently now.... And she did nothing to stop her until he was crying his heart out at which she then pulled the girl away. And then yesterday I watched as the girl followed a 2 year old around saying ... You've been naughty .... You've been naughty... Till the 2 year old got to her mother clearly upset, then the girl proceeded to try to pick her up, pulling her away from her mother, and all the while the carer is stood beside her saying nothing!!!! Now. Whilst I understand this girl may well have the mental age of 5 she is intact at least 20 yrs old and I don't think she should be allowed to behave this way towards other children. If she knows no wrong in it, then the carers should stop it before it makes other children cry! Why should we accept it because she's disabled? I feel I may have to speak to the manager if she approaches my son again because I take him there so he can interact with other children, not be pestered and scared by another adult. Once again my problem is not with the girl as such, more the people who are supposed to be watching her. Am I wrong to complain if she upsets him?

Do you know why some people feel awkward talking directly to people who are different to them in any way?

Because of threads like this.

I have worked with people with various needs, and so I might feel more confident than most, but when I first started work I will admit to feeling a bit unsure. What if I accidentally used the wrong term (even if it was the one the person used themselves), what if I somehow did the wrong thing?

The fact is that MOST people have not had very much interaction with anybody with any kind of special need. Especially because, up till recently, there were some horrible attitudes and so the people were not allowed to mix with the general community. Of course this is a terrible situation, but that's what it is.

The OP was not disapproving of the woman herself. She was not deliberatly using unacceptable terms. She was asking for advice on the way to approach a sitaution where she was unsure, so that she didn't end up doing anything wrong.

I see that it could be annoying for some people, but please try and see that some people don't know as much as you about certain subjects.

Out of curiosity, was this activity centre a soft play centre, Reason I ask is that the playcentres in the country I live in, you cannot enter unless you have a child under the age of 12. Hope your DS is okay OP YANBU, I think the carer should have intervened more. If the carer is treating her like a 5 year old as she has demonstrated by taking her to such a child orientated place, then she should be monitoring her like a 5 year old.

MissM that is a good question(I once had to help a young mand with LD when he lost his PA in asda)
I know with dd(CP) I will always look for people in the field already, so someone who has worked with young people like her.

Sense no it's not. Threads like these are good because people can get their thoughts and questions out. The reason that people feel nervous around those with SN sometimes is that they are just nervous of the not knowing...the not understanding the persons responses and needs.

When we interact with NT people in every day life we can pretty much predict responses...I smile at a stranger...they will more than likely smile back...I say "Oh isn't it cold!" and they respond with a similar statement....but with people who have special needs...you can't predict their responses and that maks some people uncomfortable and even sometimes afraid.

Most would I know try to steer the people they were looking after towards more age-appropriate activities.

Difficult one, because to this woman, those activities may be age appropriate for her.

My MILs goddaughter is 36 and her favourite activity is playing with her dolls house, her dolls, and other toys that would be "age appropriate" for a 4 year old. Her mental capacity (if I am "allowed" to say that here..) is that of a 4 year old, and always will be.

While her wording made me wince, I don't think the OP had any malicious intent. It seems as though she is approaching this situation from a position of very little experience of people with learning disabilities.

Her wording and approach obviously need to be challenged, but I think it could be done gently.

OP, surely your starting point when someone is doing something you don't like is to address it directly with that person, whether they are an NT adult, an adult with a disability or a child. If a non-verbal toddler was upsetting your baby you would presumably say something like "oh you mustn't do that, he doesn't like it". If that was non-effective you would presumably move on to looking around for the child's parent to ask them to intervene/explain. Raising the matter with the management would be a long way down the line.

I think you need to deal with your nervousness about this lady's disabilities and simply engage with her as you would with anyone else, ie in a manner appropriate to her level of understanding. It doesn't have to be patronising or offensive - if she is functioning at around the level of a 5 year-old then use language and explanations that you would use to a school-age child - reasonably simple words and reasons. It is perfectly acceptable to adapt your manner to someone's abilities. If you were talking to an elderly relative who was hard of hearing you would raise your voice and not waffle on. If you were talking to a young child you would keep things simple. If you were talking to someone very, very bright you might have to up your conversational game! Everyone can be engaged - you just have to be a bit sensitive about where you pitch your conversation.

@ChasTitty No, I was just thinking - in the example of "The Spastic Society" Australian English is using the original meaning of the word - ie "The Cerebral Palsy Society" - which is unexceptional, and the problem is that the meaning of the word that has changed in British English, rather than that we have become more sensitive to an insult that was always there IFSWIM ? Assuming of course that if they still use "The Spastic Society" it's because the word hasn't changed meaning in that particular subset of English. If "autistic" became an insult in Australia English, but not over here, would that justify that the word should be banned in British English ?

Posted too soon-

Kladdakka
Who ( officially) makes these terms 'outdated' anyway?

The people on the receiving end who are hurt by them.

Great response to PC Gorn mad/ professionally offended jibes.

I should also add, this 36 year old woman is also prone to lashing out, just like a 4 year old would, and while it is rarely a threat when a small child tries to hit you, when a fully grown 12 stone woman does it, especially to a toddler, it is dangerous. If this is similar to the scenario the OP describes, then the OP is fully entitled to think the carer should be closer and more involved.

ChasTittyBeltUp... I would have been exactly the same, I hate being touched by strangers too. What a cheeky little boy though! Well done for changing it to a 'whoops' and a smile...

MissM

Sadly it is because society doesn't give a shit.
People do care. But people with learning difficulties have no 'currency'. Those affected by living with learning difficulties often have no status and no energy to fight for better treatment. If you slice care for people with learning difficulties then few people will complain. When you cut child benefit all hell breaks lose.
It's just the way it is.
People with learning difficulties have reduced life expectancy. That is how little society cares.

Donnie - I take it you DON'T have a child with learning difficulties then, Because if ANYONE called my DD 'metally handicapped' I would NOT be able to contain myself. It IS just as insulting as 'paki' or 'nigger' or 'queer'. Which, rightly, no-one would let lie. Accusations of racism would be pouring out. Yet when it is a disablist phrase like the OP used, that is fine, and the 'professionally offended' should let it rest?

WHY WHY WHY is racism wrong yet disablism fine?

Ds1 often runs up to people's cars to peer through their windows. He hasn't damaged anyone's car doing this ever although he has risked being run over (and risked me being arrested when he launched himself through a police car's windows). Anyhow obviously I shadow him but sometimes he gets ahead of me. There isn't really a way to deal with this other than lock him away, even though the behaviour contravenes 'social rules'. If he was locked away btw he would be covered in bites and bruises - he absolutely needs to get out each day or he reacts very badly. This means we are forced into contact with the general public.

I have noted the general public divide into three main types.

(1) Those who shout and even swear at him. :wrong response: - a 12 year old shouldn't be told to 'fuck off' by a grown man- learning disabled or not.
(2) Those who look utterly confused :fair enough response: and if you don't look too hand on hips in your confusion you might get an explanation from me.
(3) Those who crack a joke 'oh I thought he was about to nick something' or who laugh and say 'hello' or those who ask me what the score is. :All good responses: They're polite, we're polite, we have a little conversation and then go on our way.

Really if you engage the child or the carer in any way you can't go wrong. DS1 also sniffs people and again the categories of general public divide as above (although if he sniffs you - even if you're looking huffy if you fall into category 2 you will get an explanation). I remember the time he sniffed an old lady's sandwich (unexpected - I was right next to him and hadn't predicted it at all). She howled with laughter, it quite made her day, she thought it was hilarious. I was grateful as given her age I expected a complaint. I think with exposure to LD's people should be able to cope with odd social mishap - it happens and it's often quite funny. When ds1 ran to the moving police car and launched himself through the window shouting 'nee nar nee nar' the policeman started laughing after initially looking very shocked as ds1 randomly pressed buttons on the dashboard. When he broke through a barrier to look at an old fire engine the person in charge lifted him up to peer through some high windows. When the school bus broke down in front of a fire station and he had a total meltdown the firemen invited the kids in to see the fire engines to distract them from being upset while the bus was mended.

Crap carers which certainly sounds an issue here is a different matter. Although sometimes even with the very best carers things can go wrong. Unless someone is actually physically damaging someone or property then it should usually be possible to sort it out with some understanding and give. I find people's reactions are very different to the same behaviours (and ds1 doesn't damage things and isn't violent towards people, although he can be inappropriate). I think those of us without LD's really should be able to cope with that.

I know witch what a little bugger he was!

Pag that post makes me very sad...no currency...so sad to think that our society is such a self pleasing one.

I meant to add that I know someone whose adult daughter has severe physical and mental disabilities - she cannot perform any autonomous action or speak at all, and no-one knows exactly what her level of understanding is, but the assumption is that it is minimal. She shows some signs of pleasure at certain things - music, bright colours and movement etc - and becomes distressed when she is uncomfortable.

Because no-one is sure exactly what is going on inside her mind we all just speak to her normally about simple things, but obviously without expecting a response.

"Are you having a nice time? It's lovely and warm today isn't it? Your dad said he took you to see a show. I bet you had a great time. I like your coat." Things like that. Maybe she doesn't understand anything we are saying and maybe it makes no difference to her whether we talk to her or not, but the point is that it gives her the chance to be part of whatever is going on if she is remotely able to do so.

I'm sorry, I guess some things come more naturally to me, growing up with a sister with SN, having a son with SN and working with about 400 adults with SN, I do sometimes forget that it doesn't come as easily to other who have no experience of learning disabilty.

However, I stand by my post that that's how the OP should've ideally reacted.

The 'all adults with additional needs are scary and unpredictable' myth is annoying, the vast majority are friendly and nice.

Some can be violent sometimes, yes. I would hope that they have well trained people that know them and their behaviours inside out and can deal with them. Unfortunately, that's often not the case, but that particular bugbear is another thread.

Sorry, I didn't mean the thread having been started, I meant the responses that were jumping on the OP for using the wrong words.

chas, I find your comments that the OP should not "have" to interact with strangers very odd. We all have to interact with strangers whether we like it or not, regardless of whether they have learning difficulties. That's what happens when you are part of a society.

I remember being in the clinic with my wee girl waiting to see the doc. Sat just across from me was a woman with her adult daughter who had downs. We all chatted for a bit, they were really nice.

Then the daughter whispered (loudest whisper I've ever heard) to her mum "Is that lady that baby's mummy?", "yes" said her mum, " No, she's too old!" said the daughter. The poor mum was mortified but all I could do was laugh. I was 39 when I had her, she was right, I am old

People with learning difficulties have reduced life expectancy. That is how little society cares.

That makes me really sad because I see myself how true it is. I need help and support because of my autism. Getting that help requires me to do things that I need that help in order to do. So 9 times out of 10 I don't make that necessary hospital/dentist/social worker appointment. Most of the time I feel adrift without a paddle.

OP there is a support forum, ask on there perhaps?

Mencap have got a lot of benefit cuts overturned, they are now campaigning to stop all social care cuts, get involved as well as educating yourself, perhaps?

www.mencap.org.uk/

And I agree entirely with Huntycat and other posters on the language issue. Disablist phrases and terms are every bit as offensive and insulting as racist ones.

People are very intolerant though.

The reason ds1 has been shouted at most often? For standing in the wrong place in a queue. If he stands to the side and a little in front of me - or sometimes right at the front - so he can see what is going on, he will wait nicely. If held back he'll kick off. He never tries to push in (he can't talk so he couldn't anyway). He just stands in the wrong place, sometimes chuntering away to himself, sometimes silently. And the number of times he has been told off? Ridiculous. Relax people. Relax.

Donnie - I take it you DON'T have a child with learning difficulties then, Because if ANYONE called my DD 'metally handicapped' I would NOT be able to contain myself

With respect, that is you Hunty. Not everyone with a disabled child does feel that way. My MILs friend will refer to her daughter as mentally handicapped, and would not be offended at anyone else referring to her in that way. Obviously the context of the words would be relevant, and she would take offence if offence was meant, not take it just because someone did not use the "correct" terminology.

Sorry Kladdkaka.
I know. It makes me sad too.
But I'm sorry I posted it if it has upset you.