To think the carer of this girl with learning disabilities needs telling!

[mummy2stan]

I take my son to a activity centre a couple of times a week and there is a young woman in there all the time who is clearly mentally handicapped, whilst I have no problem at all with this I do have one with the so called carers that are with her. Two weeks ago whilst my 18 month old son was sat in a high chair having his lunch, the girl came over started pinching his cheek and saying BOO really loudly and in his face, my son is a shy boy and isn't good with strangers anyway so at first he just stared and then after about 5 BOOS started to cry, I smiled politely at the carer who was stood with the girl saying ......gently.... Gently now.... And she did nothing to stop her until he was crying his heart out at which she then pulled the girl away. And then yesterday I watched as the girl followed a 2 year old around saying ... You've been naughty .... You've been naughty... Till the 2 year old got to her mother clearly upset, then the girl proceeded to try to pick her up, pulling her away from her mother, and all the while the carer is stood beside her saying nothing!!!! Now. Whilst I understand this girl may well have the mental age of 5 she is intact at least 20 yrs old and I don't think she should be allowed to behave this way towards other children. If she knows no wrong in it, then the carers should stop it before it makes other children cry! Why should we accept it because she's disabled? I feel I may have to speak to the manager if she approaches my son again because I take him there so he can interact with other children, not be pestered and scared by another adult. Once again my problem is not with the girl as such, more the people who are supposed to be watching her. Am I wrong to complain if she upsets him?

Maybe I should clarify: I'm not saying the term is OK, just that people could easily use it without being aware of its connotations.

Agree completely missm

Why thank you ma'am!

I suppose I just feel very sad at the lack of genuinely caring carers I see with adults. Nothing much has changed from 50 years ago really, except that now we see these adults out and about and 50 years ago they would have been locked in a hospital. But the lack of understanding from many of the carers I see can't have changed much.

(Btw, don't want this to be seen as a rant against carers - obviously some are brilliant. I unfortunately don't often see the brilliant ones).

MissM, I hope this doesn't come across badly, as I don't mean it to. Your post was obviously genuine, non-inflammatory and you are trying to be understanding and compassionate.

However, this is what the social model of disability is about. You said that people with SN should be shown how to function within society, but why? Why should society not fit in with them?

I'm not trying to be rude, like I said, I know your post has the best intentions behind it but we should trying to become a more tolerant, inclusive society as a whole rather than trying to change people.

do people not realize then that many of our interactions with other people result in those other people learning something?

How many times when you have a conversation with someone do you end up telling them something they didn't know, or vice versa? Whether it's someone you know or not...

Look at how many people on this thread were seemingly unaware that the term "mentally handicapped" was outdated, and those people have learned through their interactions on this thread that this is the case.

Every day we "teach" people things, about us, about life, about things they had no knowledge of, through our interactions with them.

Interacting with a young woman with learning difficulties who wants to get close to a baby is no different. By interacting with her, the op would be "teaching" her a bit of how to interact with that baby. It's a subconscious thing, but we do it all the time. So why the sudden objection when someone suggests it?

As for the attitudes that certain people shouldn't be allowed out in society, why the hell not? So someone might invade your personal space for a few seconds. Big deal. If people can't handle that maybe they should be the ones that stay at home.

The idea of locking up people with disabilities went out of date even before the terms that were used to describe them.

'. So seems you all might be using an out dated phrase yourselves.'

Sttill use LD here for my boys and on my autism MA coursework.

But then we don;t always say Autism

We get bonus points for autisms apparenlty

but what matters is whether the tone is caring or patronising (outside of academia) anyway

if someone ncely says my child is handicapped I may correct if appropriate but either way I will accept it in the spirit it is emant

OTOH is someone says 'I ahve bno problem with this' I will think ah but it ahs crossed their mind and think

fairly or unfairly

Mind, when i trained MH was an OK term, indeed I could ahve specilaised in MH. Which is why I know to try and go for spirit over terminology.

I didn't mean it to come across as people with SN having to do all the work BoysinCoatheads - what I meant was that it should be a mutual change. In other words, if a carer is helping an adult with SN by modelling how to behave with a toddler, it would also be an opportunity to educate the person at the receiving end (in this case the OP) to be more understanding and tolerant of that adult.

Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain it very well. I do mean that society should be more understanding and tolerant, but until we pay people properly to do a sensitive job and demand that they have proper qualifications, society will still treat people as Pagwatch says.

'
Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain it very well. I do mean that society should be more understanding and tolerant, but until we pay people properly to do a sensitive job and demand that they have proper qualifications, society will still treat people as Pagwatch says.' so true

I can't get work in the ASD field and I have been told it's because I am more qualified than most recruiters and it unnerves them; luckily can go self employed if this persists.

yet a decade or so ago when I had zero clue I literally had an overflow of offers and had to turn some down. I recognise this is in part due to the economy but even so.

Can I ask what the accepted way of describing the OP would be? I know that experienced people would have behaved differently, but what are the currently acceptable terms to use?

Maybe the OP isn't British - where I live currently, 'handicapped' and 'mentally handicapped' are the acceptable terms and no-one finds them in any way negative. It's perfectly ok to use them in polite society!

Someone told me that 'disabled' would imply that those people are less able to do things whereas top golfers have a handicap, so it's just a thing you have!

I know where you was coming from, MissM and I agree entirely that carers should be better trained, paid etc and that they should know the person they support well enough to prevent/stop any behaviours that could be distressing to another person.

I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't have used your post as an example to make my point. There's just been a lot of posts on this thread that could do with a little educating.

Senseofentitlement, If the OP had said "I was in an activity centre with my young DS the other day when a woman with SN approached him, she pinched him on the cheek and shouted boo in his face several times, scaring him. He became upset and the woman's carer did nothing to help the situation. I'm completely inexperienced with adults with learning difficulties, how should I have handled this situation?

The thread would've had very different replies.

Hello,

Thanks to those who've reported this thread. This is just to let you know that we've edited the title to take out the offensive term.

Thanks
MNHQ

This thread has been an education to me.

Kladdkaka Tue 31-Jan-12 12:31:58

saintlyjimjams the reason I get shouted at most often is because when people are irritated with me (ie most of the time) I emotionally shut down from them. Nothing I can do about it, it's an automatic autistic response. Being 'ignored' sends them ballistic.

Something I have never understood has just been made crystal clear to me - thank you so much Kladdkaka.

I genuinely don't see how 'mentally handicapped' is the phraseology of Satan and 'learning disabilities' is all lovely and inclusive and right on!

How do we know this young woman is less able to learn that we are? If you were going to change the thread title, why not change to 'special needs'?

But you're right BoysinCoatheads - it is about mutually educating, both those without SN and those with SN. I think that carers should also know their charge well enough to help them maintain their own dignity, as in the case of the man I mentioned above. I still think about that and feel so awful that she didn't respect him enough to stop him telling the entire waiting room about his appalling childhood experiences.

Got a bit worried there that the thread was going to be deleted!

I am very saddened by the many posters on this thread who seem angry that those either with disabilities themselves or who care for people are saying that they are offended by the terminology used.

It is like telling your indian neighbour to just get a sense of humour when he objects to being called "paki"

You have people here who are telling you that it IS an offensive term and that as people who experience it daily, they should know, but you are telling them they are wrong and it is perfectly ok?

It has sod all to do with political correctness. Its about not being a vile cunt

MNHQ - you have altered the thread title thus displaying that you too agree that the terminology is offensive. Will this mean an increased awareness from you in the current fashion for disablist posts?

There seem to be a great many. I was called a "mong" recently on the boards.

Had one of the great many other "ist" names been thrown at me I am pretty sure the poster would have, at the very least, been waned about such language. Can we expect similar for those who use deliberately offensive terms for the disabled? I am not talking about the OP of this thread as i really do believe it was a case of naivety rather than rudeness. But there does seem to be a high number of posts that are deeply offensive in relation to disabilities

If a mother described her own daughter as mentally handicapped, would anyone feel they have the right to challenge that woman? would you tell her she is being "disablist"?

Fwiw, I also think the OP used the term in naivety, not rudely or offensively. She may not have expressed herself very well, but I think her intentions were genuinely directed towards the lack of care and responsibility shown towards the young woman rather than the young woman herself. As others have said, this thread has really educated them , and perhaps those who have previously used such terms will now not use them.

I'm sure many people would be mortified to think they had been using a term which was so offensive to many others. Hopefully this thread will make them more sensitive.

Yes, I would, Squeaky. How do you know how the daughter feels about that word? What if other people that the daughter meets who also have SN find it offensive and she says it in their presence?

What right does the mother have to decide what terms are/are not offensive as an NT person?

What does NT mean?

Neurologically Typical, Coral.