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Original poster

To think the carer of this girl with learning disabilities needs telling!

575 replies

mummy2stan · 31/01/2012 10:27

I take my son to a activity centre a couple of times a week and there is a young woman in there all the time who is clearly mentally handicapped, whilst I have no problem at all with this I do have one with the so called carers that are with her. Two weeks ago whilst my 18 month old son was sat in a high chair having his lunch, the girl came over started pinching his cheek and saying BOO really loudly and in his face, my son is a shy boy and isn't good with strangers anyway so at first he just stared and then after about 5 BOOS started to cry, I smiled politely at the carer who was stood with the girl saying ......gently.... Gently now.... And she did nothing to stop her until he was crying his heart out at which she then pulled the girl away. And then yesterday I watched as the girl followed a 2 year old around saying ... You've been naughty .... You've been naughty... Till the 2 year old got to her mother clearly upset, then the girl proceeded to try to pick her up, pulling her away from her mother, and all the while the carer is stood beside her saying nothing!!!! Now. Whilst I understand this girl may well have the mental age of 5 she is intact at least 20 yrs old and I don't think she should be allowed to behave this way towards other children. If she knows no wrong in it, then the carers should stop it before it makes other children cry! Why should we accept it because she's disabled? I feel I may have to speak to the manager if she approaches my son again because I take him there so he can interact with other children, not be pestered and scared by another adult. Once again my problem is not with the girl as such, more the people who are supposed to be watching her. Am I wrong to complain if she upsets him?

OP posts:
Ephiny · 31/01/2012 11:26

Do you refer to all 20 year old women as 'girls', or just the ones with disabilities?

kirsty75005 · 31/01/2012 11:26

I left the UK some time ago.

At the point I left the UK, the accepted PC term was "mentally handicapped". I have seen at least one ad from a mental health charity fighting against stigma instructing people in the correct use of the phrase "mentally handicapped". At one point I was told that I should not use the word disabled because it was offensive and handicapped was much better. If I've rightly understood, it's the other way round now. But maybe I've misunderstood - liike I say, I'm out of the loop.

(All of this not in a workhouse but a very right-on charity that worked with disabled youngsters, very committed to integrating them in the community. The general attitude of all the people who were telling me to say "mentally handicapped" was irreprochable.)

The problem is that however much you change the language, there are a certain number of people who have a bad attitude to disability. So every twenty years or so, the latest very PC very inclusive word has acquired negative connotations and become offensive and has to be replaced by another. (And probably, yes, in twenty years time, learning difficulties and special needs will have become insulting and will be replaced by something else.)

At one point my school renamed the bottom sets for maths and English the "remedial" classes. I think it was supposed to be relatively PC term. Within a few weeks, the latest and cruellest playground insult going around was "remmy".

willowthecat · 31/01/2012 11:28

Salem and Stalin were in different countries and different centuries but I suppose it's all pretty much the same when you don't think much about anything.

saintlyjimjams · 31/01/2012 11:28

mummy - just talk to her and yes it is perfectly acceptable to pick your child up. Ds3 was a baby around many older children with LD's and I was constantly having to pick him up and explain to them why they couldn't carry him/poke him/sit on him/whatever.

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 31/01/2012 11:29

I'm 32 and am more than happy to be referred to as a girl.

I don't want to be called a woman. That makes me sound older than I want to be.

Lady is just about ok, but only in the right circumstances.

saintlyjimjams · 31/01/2012 11:31

It's fine to talk to the carer as well. In your situation I would probably pick the baby up and engage the girl if possible, then say to the carer 'sorry he's a bit scared'. If I thought the carer was completely crap and unengaged and allowing the girl to get into dangerous situations I would try to find out where they were based and report them. It may be that there was some reason why the carer had allowed that (although hard to think of one tbh) but in conversation that should be revealed.

saintlyjimjams · 31/01/2012 11:32

I refer to the 40 year olds I meet up with as girls. So no I don't really have a problem with girl. Hmm

ComposHat · 31/01/2012 11:33

Returning to the OP I am very puzzled that the carers felt a play area was an appropriate place to take an adult woman.

It seems a bit demeaning to her, 'you have a learning difficulty so are not an adult, so you must be a child and hang out with children.' My Uncle works for Mencap and the starting point for planning activities is usually 'What would a group of young adults like to do together and how do we adopt it so the clients can get the most from it?'

It certainly wouldn't be a case of taking adults down the park so they could play with the children.

Pagwatch · 31/01/2012 11:33

Op.
Just say clearly to the young woman 'he doesn't like that' and remove your child.
If you can then say to the carer 'could you please help your charge a bit more pro-actively. She is upsetting my son and she will get upset herself if children she tries to play with keep having to be removed'

Sevenfold · 31/01/2012 11:33

donnie Tue 31-Jan-12 11:09:25
another Stalinist thread on mumsnet.

OP you did the right thing. The term 'mentally handicapped' may be outdated but it is not like saying 'Paki' or 'nigger ' or 'poof'. It's just dimwitted people struggling to be popular.

What the fuck should she do, just let her child sit there and be whacked over the head?

god help us.......

TheLightPassenger · 31/01/2012 11:34

as usual v. sensible advice from saintly. Try speaking to the young woman or her carer, rather than the manager

BlueFergie · 31/01/2012 11:34

Ah yes that makes sense kladdkaka and certainly intellectual disability applies to the people my mum works with. Also would have thought it applies to woman in OP as from description she sounds quite similiar to some of the service users in my mums centre. I do think the term learning difficulties is not suitable in their case as it is not an accurate portrayal of how much support and assistance they need.

notfluffyatall · 31/01/2012 11:34

Baaaad terminology.

I'm a bit puzzled why you didn't just kindly ask the girl to stop after the first pinch and BOO, if it was anyone else I'm sure that's what you'd do. Please just attempt to treat people with a learning disability just as you'd treat anyone else. Only when it was absolutely apparent that she wasn't understanding you would it be appropriate to talk to her carers.

Pagwatch · 31/01/2012 11:35

Compos

It depends on the individual. We try to steer ds2 to more age appropriate activities but, if asked to chose a treat, he will want things like swings.
To deny him things he still adores just because society finds it odd would be a bit harsh.
I take your point but it has to be a balance

GypsyMoth · 31/01/2012 11:37

Who ( officially) makes these terms 'outdated' anyway?Confused

HintofBream · 31/01/2012 11:39

Several of the Flamers who are giving the OP a hard time for using an outmoded expression refer to the woman involved as "a lady". On a different sort of thread the Flamers would be flamed for using such an outmoded and patronising term. Double standards or what?

squeakytoy · 31/01/2012 11:42

My Uncle works for Mencap

Mencap.. I wonder why they haven't changed their name then, if it is SOOOO bad to use the words Mentally Handicapped.

I have never come across anyone being mocked with the term.. .there are a lot worse, much more insulting and incorrect words used to describe people with very severe learning difficulties.

WilsonFrickett · 31/01/2012 11:42

Compos that's why I wondered if the other woman was even a carer at all? Most would I know try to steer the people they were looking after towards more age-appropriate activities.

Kladdkaka · 31/01/2012 11:42

Who ( officially) makes these terms 'outdated' anyway?

The people on the receiving end who are hurt by them.

ChasTittyBeltUp · 31/01/2012 11:44

I agree with you Bream it all depends on how many times people have been in contact with SN people....if you've never had anything to do with anyone who isn't NT then you're not going to know the "right" words are you? OP probably used the same term as was acceptable when she was in school.

OP...you need to get some balls. It's hard to learn that now and then we have to risk offending others for the well being of our child. I remeber a woman came up to my DD in her pram and was sort of chucking her under the chin but with a clenched fist! The same way you might say coochy coo with one finger...she did it about three times before I said "Get away...she doesn't like that and neither do I."

She ever hurt DD but the "energy" behind her "attention" was wrong...somehow odd.

Just go with instincts and if in doubt remove the child.

gramercy · 31/01/2012 11:44

I think the OP has got an inappropriate pasting. Ok, so the terminology was out of date, but as others have pointed out, the right terms are always changing. As an editor, there was constant flux over what words to use. Some, obviously, are very insulting and plain wrong, but others change all the time and you can't hope to keep up, e.g. Afro American, African American... and I believe it's changed again now. Also agree that all too soon an agreed term becomes a pejorative one, e.g. Special Needs - I'm quite sure this will bite the dust soon as I've heard quite a few youths use it as a term of abuse to their mates.

Anyway, I think that because of all this anxiety over not being offensive the OP was reluctant to speak to the carer. I know I would have been. I'd have felt guilty about the possibility that the girl (yes! Girl! - all 20-year-olds are girls from my aged perspective) might no longer be able to attend a centre she enjoyed, that I'd be causing trouble for the carer and that I wasn't being very understanding. It is a difficult one.

BoysInCoatheads · 31/01/2012 11:46

The OP, many posts on the thread, it all just makes me sad tbh. I thought we'd moved on a lot.

However, to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that she's just ill-educated.

  1. YOU are responsible for the safety of your child. If you think they are unsafe, very distressed then do something about it.
  1. Engage with the woman herself, show her ways to interact with your DS that he enjoys.
  1. If the woman continued to behave in a way that upsets your son then have a quick and quiet word with her carer. Just, "excuse me, but my son is a bit upset by X pinching him, would you mind explaining to her that it's not appropriate" is fine.

It's not difficult.

ChasTittyBeltUp · 31/01/2012 11:46

In Australia they still have the Spastic Society! and my MIL uses some awgul words...shes Aussie...and DH and I are constantly having to tell her "We don't say that these days...it's hurtful to people" and she's always Confused

And people wonder why I wont live in Oz!

ohanotherone · 31/01/2012 11:47

Well, why didn't you say to the carer that you don't think that it is appropriate to disturb people having their lunch and ask her what agency she is from and then ring said agency and say that you do not think that the carers were caring for their lady in an appropriate way????? No, much easier to come on mumsnet and whinge isn't it? The carer's salary is irrelevant in this case but training/attitude and skills of carer are clearly lacking and the issue should be addressed by her manager.

ChasTittyBeltUp · 31/01/2012 11:48

Boys no offence but why on earth should the OP have to engage with strangers and help them learn to play with her child?? She doesn't have to do that...