People who are late for school every day or almost every day.

[MrsJAlfredPrufrock]

Why don't you just get up 15 mins earlier?

I'm expecting StrongestMummy to come back and thank those of us who did politely answer her questions. I'm sure she appreciates the time we took to explain rather basic concepts of consideration to her and realises that we didn't have to just because she demanded asked.

StrongestMummy - not sure if you are as totally selfish as you sound, surely you can't be!

You have no idea of how difficult it was for your friend to get there at the time you agreed to meet. Maybe she had to catch an earlier than expected bus so she wasn't late, maybe she had a phone call as she was leaving home which led to her having to run all the way to the bus stop so she didn't miss it, maybe she was feeling really tired and could have done with 10 extra minutes in bed, or maybe she didn't have time to stop to put the washing on meaning that she has more to do when she gets home. The reason you have no idea whether it was difficult for your friend to be punctual, is because she was there ON TIME despite everything, because she didn't want to put YOU out, because she recognises that sticking to an agreement is important and to do otherwise is selfish.

There is nothing worse than making a huge effort to get somewhere on time, to find that the person you are meeting just couldn't be arsed to have the same thought for you that you have had for them. She was probably stood there thinking of all the things she could have been doing, rather than standing around like a lemon waiting for you to deign to put in an appearance. And for you to not even be slightly apologetic is just quite unbelievable.

I would imagine that most sandwiches in places like M&S and Pret have been made the night before!

OP - why do you care? I can see th doors opening at my dc's school so I just wait and go then - he's not actually late but just the last through the door.

My dm wouldn't let me go to school when she heard about the deaths of elvis and john lennon. I had to stay at home and listen to their music. Better culturally than any culture I learnt at school, for sure.

"MrsJAlfredPrufrock Wed 25-Jan-12 14:24:54

Rolf - and anyone else experiencing understandable difficulties getting to school on time. This isn't about you. The families I'm talking about have no such difficulties, they are perpetually late for no good reason/half-baked different reasons every day. And actually I know a lot about SEN.

Please can people stop making this out to be an attack on parents of children with special needs. It's not."

But, Mrs J.A.P can you be sure?

Someone I know quite well (served together on a team for almost 3 years, children went to same [small] educational establishment) commented to me a few weeks ago "Haven't seen you for ages - now I know why. You are always late and I am always early "

Well yes, perhaps she has a point. But the fact is that my DD1 has SN and goes by bus-taxi to special school. I cannot leave the house before she gets on her minibus. I have to wait. Then I have to get my other children across the village to DD2's school.

I too had a parent who was always late. I always promised myself that my children wouldn't be late for school. Guess what...sometimes it's out of your control.

I can't change it.

Of course I apologise to the teachers. Gladly, for me, DD2's teacher made a point of stopping my mother when she picked DD2 up for me, to say 'Tell Lougle not to worry - I know DD2 is late, but I won't mark her late, because I know that Lougle just can't do anything about it."

Interestingly the Parent Governor elections are coming up, and the woman I know is standing. She won't be getting my vote, because I want people who take such posts to be ones that don't make those assumptions.

Carrie - M&S and others do make sandwiches day(s) before, but Pret pride themselves on making them instore and on the day (and I think I do believe their blurbs).

I have read the whole thread and what strikes me is that people who are 'just late' for no apparent reason appear tohave a much greater 'sense of entitlement' than others. Just an observation

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. the things other people worry/get judgy about.
i am a late person, i have always been a late person. i could not tell you why. my mother was definitely not, because her mother was and it drove her mad, so not something i inherited. maybe its my lack of organisation or an inability to measure time the same way others do, i do really hate getting out of my bed in the morning, but who doesnt.
i have 3 young children to get ready and get out of the house in the morning, some times we are on time and sometimes we are late , its not the end of the world. i dont think my time is any more important than any one else and its not like i dont try to get them there on time but in the same vain i am not going to cry about it either. everyone has different strengths and weakness's, other peoples abilities to organise themselves, lives, household etc amaze me but i have my own strengths too in life and as a parent. i would rather concentrate on those than freak out if my child/children are 2 minutes late. but everyone is different.

Thanks very much all who replied, I will reply to your replies more fully in an hour or so. REally very helpful, thank you very much and apologies if my message seemed terse, it really wasn't meant to. I was asking sincerely and am grateful for your time.

RedHotPokers, I'm not sure why you think I wasn't apologetic. There are people on this thread who say "I'm late and I don't care". I've said that my lateness is the bane of my life. I always apologise, and naturally people get pretty fed up of hearing the same old reasons and me saying sorry I'm late and then being late again and again. And I do phone if I can.

I take your point about other people might be rushing and making an effort to get there on time. That is really helpful. I can visualise that and that will help me stay focussed when I'm getting ready.

StrongestMummyInTheWorld Fri 27-Jan-12 20:55:28
Thanks very much all who replied, I will reply to your replies more fully in an hour or so.

Don't be late, now!

Apologies if I was a bit harsh strongestmummy. I think your lack of empathy for why your friend was annoyed gave me the impression that you were unapologetic.

Mists

Matches, that is a really helpful post. I'm giving the museum example because to me it seems kind of obvious that if you are at a lovely place with loads to look at then it's irrelevant whether there is someone with you are not. And there were things we went to look at that my friend had seen, and she kept saying so. I wouldn't myself have minded looking at them again if it was her who had been late. I guess the thing I have to do is imagine that people might see things differently than me.

The work thing: yep it's a contract, and now that I'm very old and experienced I can guess why contracts like that are useful to roll out across the whole company. However, my role didn't involve any babies, real or metaphorical, at 0830. My main baby turned up at 1300 on a Wednesday. I had to produce a report by then. When I took over the task, the report was usually late and full of errors (about 500 pages of numbers). After a number of weeks, I got the report out every week on Tuesday at 1100, with close to no errors. They gave me a bonus and another job to do, so then I was literally doing work that two people had done in one week. I cleaned that up and they added another half person's job, (nice bonuses, but still on the original salary) at which point I went and worked for an organisation that had flexitime.

I'm not excusing my lateness. It drove me crazy too. Every day I'd swear to myself I'd be in ten minutes early next day, and every day I'd lose something or get distracted.

When I worked in schools I found that the regular late comers were very relaxed about it but didn't realise that it does cause disruption. The register had already been called and the kids were getting stuff ready and then the late comer breezes in so everything has to be halted while the late comer is marked in and then the class can continue.

On Tuesday I was on a moving and handling course and we were told to be there for 9.00 signing in 9.15 start. Some people turned up at 9.15 which meant then the class couldn't start until 9.25/9,30 because they then had to sign in, holding up the people that got there for 9.00am. To make matters worse they just did a daft grin and said 'sorry, sorry,sorry' in a daft giggly voice. Turned out they were late because in break they told us ' well no one starts on time do they? arghhhhhhhh!!!

When ds2 was 5 he asked his friend from school to come round and play. Well I did on his behalf. 'Yes' said the mother I will be there at 1.00pm. She turned up at 4.00pm despite me ringing her. DS was really upset at the time wondering why his friend hadn't turned up. 'Hiya' she says, I called in at a mates house on the way over for a chat and you know what it's like!!' nearly bloody flattened her for wasting my afternoon and upsetting DS2 with her fucking selfishness.

Fast forward 6 years from that incident and I was running a young people project that was quite specilized. Her twins were involved in the project and the meeting time was every Wednesday at 5.45pm. Before we let people join we told them it was the same time and place every week to meet but we need people to be punctual because we had a minibus and the project invoved leaving the base. If people couldn't commit to that, fine, we understood.
Every week for 6 weeks we had 9 kids in a minibus with seatbelts on waiting to go and the leaders pulling hair out because we were waiting for her. Always Always late. I would ring up at 5.55pm and say where are you and she always replied ' I'm just leaving now 'hills, on my way!!
When we asked the twins why they were late they said 'mum wanted a coffee, (fag, read the paper whatever ) before we left.

Then she got upset because we had to drop them from the group but it was unfair on the rest of the group who got there on time. And before anyone asks - no we couldn't make the group 15 minutes later because the leaders went into another session straight after that project finished.

Re strongestmummy not having a problem keeping a friend hanging for 40 minutes show a lack of understanding that people have other things they could be doing in that time. I would be cross because the activity I was doing before I was due to meet you I could have done for longer, I could have stayed at home at done something I wanted to do for the best part of an hour. You would be wasting MY time and it isn't for you to do that.
If you had a genuine excuse I would be forgiving. If you were late - just because- I wouldn't meet up with you again. I would still be your friend but I would be much more fluid as to when and where I would see you.

Maureen, I wasn't making an excuse, what I am saying is that it is hard to change the habits of a lifetime. Maybe there's something wrong with my sandwich technique but mine are dry and horrid or soggy and horrid after about 5 hours. And it's a long time since I updated my Food Hygiene Cert but IIRC you're supposed to bin them after 12 hours in the fridge, let alone 6 in the fridge and 6 hanging around at ambient temperature.

After my ranting what I realise I was trying to say is that people's lateness often has a knock on consequence for other people whether it is obvious to them or not.(the person who is late that is!)

Upahill, I do have a huge problem with keeping friends waiting for 40 minutes. I have met so many wonderful people in my life who do not count me as a friend because I have been late. When you say "people have other things they could be doing in that time", that does make sense. I've been on a mission to sort out my timekeeping for the last year, and the one thing I still find hardest to deal with is other people who seem to have no sense of urgency.

Thanks to everyone else who replied, you are lovely you know, and me and my daughter were the first ones into school today. So proud.

I have never been late (even when with newborn) but I don't care what others do as long as mine aren't late.... I think lateness is genetic and I am an early person, I also think early / late people can't have close long lasting relationships or friendships without it causing issues....

Upahill, I have a friend very like the woman you mention and barely see her any more as I can't bring myself to waste half a day seeing her for an hour.

We've been friends since school and went to the same Uni. I have actually seen her in action, making herself late for something and not really giving a shit. At uni she was at my house and kept saying "oh, I really must get to my appointment" all the while drinking tea and watching Late fecking lunch and didn't leave my house until 15 mins before her appt started even though it would take her, at the very minimum, 30 mins to get there on the bus.

The number of times she would be late to meet me - once I left my house in the middle of a TV programme to mee her in the pub. SHe arrived 20 mins late and said "sorry, I was just watching the end of xxx TV proramme" (the same one I'd missed to meet her!)

Sense of entitlement. Yep.

That's good news strangestmummy
Let's stay with the museum example.

Say I had been really looking forward to meeting my friend strangest I hadn't seen her for a while and had loads to talk about. I have arranged to meet her at 1.00pm but I have to leave at 3.00pm because I have (got to pick the kids up, going for a smear, going to work, whatever) I arrive a few minutes early because I don't want to be late and keep strangest waiting.
However strangest turns up at 1.40pm!! I wasn't really interested in the exhibition but it was a good meeting venue. I am bored and now I can only spend 80mins with strangest and I had so much to talk about.
'Hmmmmmm, I think, perhaps strangest wasn't that bothered about meeting me Perhaps she only wanted to meet me because she felt sorry for me/ had to. I won't put her out next time if it is too much effort for her.

Going back to the work thing of starting at 8.35 when you are supposed to start at 8.30am. The problem there is that it causes resentment to those that did get there for 8.30am. Also then it sets a standard. Someone would start to come in at 8.35 and still expect to go home at 5.30pm. Before you know it people will and do push things and take the piss.
That is why bosses have to take a hard line. If they let you get away with it but stop others because it is becoming unmanagable they will be accused of showing favouritism. (Well, why is it ok for strangest then? )

Hope this makes sense.

Wineforthelady that is a very interesting comment - and I think you are right. I have had (and still have) friends over the years that have been great fun but have been very different to me in terms of punctuality. I have lost count of the times I have been sat waiting around in various places, feeling resentful that, whilst I have got my shit together and got there on time, they have had no problem about keeping me waiting. I do understand that sometimes it can't be helped, but most of the time it's bad planning or lack of consideration.

Strongestmummy has obviously upset people she likes over the years and understands the repercussions of being late for people so I am still finding it really hard to understand how ard it an be to BE ON TIME!

I really struggle with other people being late. I have a colleague who is always ten minutes late for work. The rest of us have to be there on time, so why does she consider herself to be above this? Why not just get up earlier?

If I have to be somewhere I adjust my routine to ensure I'm there on time. I don't arrogantly assume that I am more important than the deadline/person I'm due to meet. I factor in the time needed to deal with likely problems (sudden baby-poo explosions, for example) - if they don't happen then that's just ducky, I can have a few minutes reading my book or having an extra cup of coffee.

StrongestMummy I'm glad you found my post helpful, it genuinely was intended to be, and well done for getting your DD into school early

I said earlier that I used to be late a lot. LIke you I pissed off friends and employers.

Like you, I wanted to change. I think some people do have a sense of entitlement, but that wasn't the (whole) reason for my lateness and it doesn't sound like it is for yours either.

So something that was a turning point for me, might help you - and answer PigeonPair's question as to why it's still hard for you to be on time.

I realised that my lateness was a form of self-destructiveness. I can't say exactly why I was doing it, but I was sabotaging myself. It's not fun to piss friends and employers off, and I remember a couple of bad bollockings

So I when I started to look at my lateness in that way, with some self awareness, I was able to sort of monitor myself. So for example, in the morning I sometimes want to sit and play on my phone - "only for a few minutes" instead of getting ready. I will talk to myself and say 'why are you procrastinating when you know rationally that if you don't get your arse moving, you'll be late? Why are you purposefully wasting time you don't have, or pushing the boundaries and leaving things to the last minute? You know that if you're late, then DD will be late, and she'll feel embarrassed and maybe get told off, and she'll feel bad, and then you'll feel bad. Why are you doing something that will lead to you feeling bad about yourself?"

Now, I never have the answers to those questions, but that self awareness is enough to get me moving. Like a sulky teenager, mind you, but at least moving!

To add - my self-sabotaging was subconscious, not conscious, so being conscious of it was the real turning point

I am a CM and I have parents coming late in the morning, parents that talk too much, children who is taking too long to eat breakfest, children who refuses to put the ir coats on, children who needs a nap change or toilet in the last minute and sometimes seems that everyone in the building is leaing at the same time and I miss 2, 3 run of lifts.
I hate rush to school but it happens
Dont be so judgemental.