to think most people would like us to live in a communist country?

[wannaBe]

"landlords shouldn't be allowed to rent for more than x amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to sell their houses for more than a certain amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to earn more than a certain amount of money (I'm talking salary here not benefits)."

This isn't a thread about who is better off and who can afford to do what - that's been done to death elsewhere.

But do people really think we would be in a better place if we didn't live in a free economy and where we were dictated to by the state how much we could and couldn't earn/whether we could or couldn't sell our house etc? really?

no i think you are confusing socialism and communism. yes to socialism a more fair society for all and a big big no to communism that allows people no individuality it represses people terribly i have yet to meet one person from a communist country who is supportive of it (once they speak openly)

cuba is a beautiful country but the people seem so beaten down and depressed (others i know who have been there felt the same) it has a sad atmosphere when you get out of the hotels (apart from the clubs). i have been to much poorer countries where the people are striving for a better life is that so wrong? in cuba it feels like they have given up its very sad

Well said Hecate. If we could truly have a society that lived up to those principles it would be idyllic. But I don't see much chance of that. Capitalism has failed private corporations were bailed out rather than accept the free market solution of going to the wall when they had failed to have proper risk management in place. And we still flog a dead horse, even after the failure of the free market system has left us in more debt than the last world war.
If that doesn't lead us to seriously examine how we run the country, what on earth will?
Lydia you can have my chocolate, I'm on a diet so happy to share. One step closer to a communist utopia, it can be easy after all

A working communist country....

In your fantasy hecate, what would spur people on to train for years to do v responsible job, ie surgeon, if they weren't allowed any more reward for it than if they did nowt, or a low skilled job?

I have NO idea.

I'll be honest, it's rather a vague fantasy, consisting of little more than everyone having a happy life with everything they need and nobody being hungry or poor and everyone working together for a common good

In my fantasy world, people would do what they loved, what they were good at - everyone has different skills and talents. People would go to a field that suited those talents.

And all jobs would be equally important. Nobody would be thought of as better or worse because they were a brain surgeon or a bin man.

Have I mentioned it will never happen

I quite fancy Cuba.

Am I confusing socialism and communism? I don't know.

I know that communist countries that exist today or have existed aren't the communism that I read about and like the idea of - which is a classless, stateless, moneyless socialist society with everything owned by the community and run for the benefit of the community.

Pure Communist and pure Capitalist systems periodically collapse because they both end up in the same place. Under both systems an elite ends up with all the wealth and the majority live in actual or virtual slavery.

At the end point, both systems collapse as the majority revolt. When pure communism is overthrown it tends to be replaced by Capitalism and when pure Capitalism is overthrown it tends to be replaced by Communism.

It is fairly clear that China is heading towards a catostrophic revolt as the communist elite are increasingly incredibly rich compared to the mass of people. We are not anywhere near the extreme end point yet in the UK but social tension is clealry there in the political dialogue with people resenting both benefits claimants and the super rich.

I'd leave the country if we had no individual ownership of stuff!

I'm quite attached to my stuff.

I don't think it means someone comes into your home and walks off with your favourite blouse

why am I defending my fantasy world?

Lol Lol Lol at Justhecate attempts at defending her world

I know. I feel all protective over my poor little fantasy world coming under attack, when it's totally perfect and all that

I really need a hobby...

I just found an old newspaper of a former Soviet Republic, from the last years of Soviet Union. There is an interesting article on front page. Approximate translation:

About Tokens (this did not mean you got this food for free - this was rationing, you could not buy more than you had tokens for)

Tokens will be distributed by your local council. The provisions available are limited and therefore it is very important to follow the rationing published in the newspapers. Current rations are:
1 kilo flour per 3 months
1 kilo sugar
1 pack of pasta per 3 months
15 boxes of matches
1 pair of men's socks per 6 months.
1 bottle of alcohol

All rationed goods can only be bought by people living in the respective county.

You sure you would like to live in communism?

Don't worry Justhecate, we will fight for the right of your country to exist and thrive on collective ownership of chocolate (dark or milk btw?)

I don't think anyone really wishes to live in a communist country, at least those we've experienced in the xix century.

I quite like earth star trek style.

I don't know whether i would like to be assimilated by the Borg though.

Maybe I will settle for socialism.

I suppose it depends if you believe that the soviet republic was actually communism in its intended form. I don't. I think it was more - what's the word? totalitarian? Which is different, I think, from the beautiful idea of true communism - as I understand it.

I admit that my understanding is limited, and based on membership of the SWP when I was a student, my A level politics and some light reading now and again during the last years and being a massive star trek fan and thinking how great it would be to live in the utopian socialist fantasy that is the Federation

I think people should learn the difference between communism and Communism. It's like conservative and Conservative, not the same thing.

also, the Soviet Republic was never communist, it was State Capitalist.

If communist means no longer letting the dark forces of capitalism run absoluely rampant to the detriment of mankind in general then yes, bring it on.

ah, franca. Chocolate is bordering on a medical need, so both milk and dark would be freely available to all.

Not white though. White chocolate is revolting and no truly enlightened culture would entertain it.

people here are saying that Cuba seems like such a nice lovely country. While I have never lived there, I bet it's not that dissimilar to the above mentioned republic.

"True communism" is not possible due to human nature.

There's no such thing as human nature, its an artificial construct determined by the society you live in.

Human beings aren't bees.

we don't work for the good of the hive, or at least, it isn't hard-wired into us.

so trying that kind of thing hasn't worked.

Comparing Scandinavian countries...silly. where is the city like London in those countries? No demographic comparison at all.

Mind you, I make a fantastic cake with white chocolate...

no society is an artificial construct set up based on our nature and needs.