to think most people would like us to live in a communist country?

[wannaBe]

"landlords shouldn't be allowed to rent for more than x amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to sell their houses for more than a certain amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to earn more than a certain amount of money (I'm talking salary here not benefits)."

This isn't a thread about who is better off and who can afford to do what - that's been done to death elsewhere.

But do people really think we would be in a better place if we didn't live in a free economy and where we were dictated to by the state how much we could and couldn't earn/whether we could or couldn't sell our house etc? really?

Governments trying to artificially create equality causes a lot of problems. A big reason the Labour government was ousted was that people were fed up working hard only to see other people do nothing and seem to enjoy the same standard of living. Where governments engineer equality to the extent that it squashes ambition, we all lose out. Where were the Soviet Union and China before they embraced free enterprise?.... stuck with a population of very equal but very unmotivated peasants....

The financial crisis was also caused by peopel and the state spending more thna they earned. the state at the boom still had to borrow huge amoutns of money to support itself, rather than using the boom as a way to manage the economy properly they just used it to get cheap loans. Now as everyoen kept doing this and not paying back the loans we either have to cut state spending to put us in a position to pay back the loans and keep getting them without high interest, or only get loans with huge interest and suddenly have to go pelading for a bail out. As far as I am aware it was nto actually the investment sector of banking that caused the problems, rather the retail sector of the banking industry.

Cuba's civil rights history is quite appalling. Even before the Revolution it has to be said.

If the example is Nordic countries using the revenues from oil to invest in state-funded projects, we could say that the British equivalent has been to take the tax money from the Financial Services Sector to do the same thing. That's what Brown and Blair used to pay for the Tax Credits and the NHS etc, plus they borrowed a bit more for good measure. Worked really well until the Credit Crunch. We decry the banks now and call them all kinds of names because the milch-cow stopped giving milk - but they were our 'Swedish oil industry' and, if we want the same kind of public spending again, we need them to get back on their feet and we need other industries to be up there with them. Maybe stop giving them such a hard time.

NOT everyone Kelly

Not my family anyway

many perhaps; not everyone, and those least likely to have done so (vulnerable) are those most likely to see cuts on all sides- benefits, services, etc.

Here in Sweden the state own all the alcohol .

If Sweden and all teh alochol is HERE then I am going thisaway

YABU and extrapolating far too far from a few opinions.

Ok, maybe I stretched it. They don't own all the alcohol. I have one or two bottles stashed away as I'm sure do a few others. But if I want more I have to go to a state owned shop during limited opening hours and sign my name in blood. No cheap plonk in the supermarket or off-licence here.

Although in fairness I live in a village therfore my alcohol access is controlled my The God Of Spar and therfore far from cheap anyway

(sorry, am in silly mood after horrible 'shoot right wingers' thread descended into rounding up all disabled people)

Kladdkaka I used to buy my alcohol from the back of a lorry from Germany when we lived in Sweden.

Another thing in Sweden, only related to the alcohol issue because it mirrors the State's control issues, when I informed the tax office (who control everything) of my house move the wrote back and confirmed that my 'application to change address has been approved'. Eh? I wasn't asking you permission, I was informing you of mine. Cheeky buggers.

MoneyBunny I can well believe it. The laden cars coming off the Denmark ferry put UK booze cruises to shame.

Not sure how Sweden, and Ikea are in any held up as socialist, Ikea shops are indeed owned heavily by a (Dutch) charity, but that's purely to do with ensuring the family doesn't lose control and ensure that the company does not have to pay the very high taxes in Sweden. Ikea is surely an example of how Sweden's economy doesn't particularly work. In any case Scandanavia are rich countries because of very few people compared to their natural resources, Comparing Norwegian wealth from oil and gas to the UK's is ludicrous, Norway has more, and a lot more per person than the UK, it's completely different situation.

I'd LOVE to live in a true communist society.

Of course, one doesn't actually exist on the planet and probably never has, but if one ever develops, I'll be over there like a shot!

from each according to ability, to each according to need.

Where everyone has what they need, and everyone contributes what they can, and nobody gets lots of things while others have nothing.

Sort of a star trek society. It would be wonderful.

Of course, it will never happen because it conflicts with basic human nature.

We are selfish bastards at heart.

I think I'm left-wing. I vote Labour although that means nothing these days
I have and would use private healthcare and education in situations where I felt the state provision was falling short.
I don't know how many people on here have been to a Communist country. The reasons why these countries 'fail' are complex. In the case of Cuba for example perhaps it would've been more successful had virtually every other country refused to trade with it. Having said that I think we have to look at the lessons history has taught us and accept that Communism is doesn't actually work.

JustHecate - I have a shit load of stuff I dont need though, I don't need more than 2 pairs of shoes, I don't need a single piece of going out clothing, I don't need more than 1 coat, I don't need a single CD, I don't need any DVDs, I don't need more than 1 set of bedding per bed and as our household consists of me, DH and DS, we don't need a 3 bed house. "from each according to ability to each according to need" would remove all the chocolate in my kitchen and all the wine in the fridge, I need neither. It would also take the makeup from my vanity case (and the case) and due to the walking distance to our local town and the walking distance to the train station, it would remove both cars from the drive (or at least the petrol in them). I wholeheartedly reject it as an idea as I like stuff. Not too much stuff, but the trappings of a middleclass lifestyle.

Well, hopefully there'd be enough chocolate, wine, cds and shoes for everyone

from each according to ability, to each according to need doesn't actually mean that everyone only has the absolute bare essentials and nothing more. It means a good quality of life for everyone.

Don't want communism or facism.

I'm fairly lefty but would like right winged people to work for me to make me rich so I could spread the wealth (not anonymously, I'm also very egotistical).

Fair to middling, left of.

Look after the poor, the vunerable, really look after them. But allow each person to make good money through honest hard work, and allow those who are brilliant to rake it in.

JustHecate - honestly, I've been on here on a Friday night at the drunk threads and I've been on the Style and Beauty threads, there is no way in hell I'll be able to convince anyone officiall that I need chocolate, wine and pretty shoes more than other MNers.

I used to live in a communist country - funny how that really helped shaped my political views in a way that is not necessarily what the government there was aiming for. There's a huge amount to be said for some of the principles of communism but the theory is so very, very much better than the practice.

When people romanticism communism, I do think that maybe, just maybe they'd think differently if they had first hand experience.

ah, but in my fantasy world everyone would have choc, wine and pretty shoes.

It's just that nobody would have ALL the choc, wine and shoes while others had none.

Like I say, it'll never happen. People are driven to live in groups and grab as much of the wealth within that group for themselves. But a girl can dream

But that's the thing, blameit, isn't it? - the idea of a true communist society is lovely.

We just haven't actually HAD one yet.