to think most people would like us to live in a communist country?

[wannaBe]

"landlords shouldn't be allowed to rent for more than x amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to sell their houses for more than a certain amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to earn more than a certain amount of money (I'm talking salary here not benefits)."

This isn't a thread about who is better off and who can afford to do what - that's been done to death elsewhere.

But do people really think we would be in a better place if we didn't live in a free economy and where we were dictated to by the state how much we could and couldn't earn/whether we could or couldn't sell our house etc? really?

Sorry for all the typos! On phone

True communism can't possibly exist in a small community, since that has to exist within the capitalist framework. So no, kibbutzes, communes etc are NOT communist examples.

"Erm but they do! The richest 1% pay 25% of UK income tax. The top 10% pay 50% of all income tax."

Yes and listen to all the whingeing about it and the threats to leave if the richest don't get their monstrous bonuses. And the various dodges to escape the nasty old tax system. And we still have people in poverty and without homes. And we still have huge inequality - it's getting worse not better.

Oh and please don't say 'Erm...' in your posts. It's massively insulting. Thanks.

The irony is that Cuba is starting to relax it's communist grip and move towards a more capitalist regime.

OrmIrian. I suspect your tune would soon change if you were continually asked to pay more tax even though you were one of the top contributors.

Most of the rich are happy to pay their fair share of tax, happy to contribute to those who are less fortunate and don't make a big deal out of it. The really rich also have various charitable causes they set up. The filthy rich (the likes of Warren Buffet and Bill Gates) seem to be happy to spend their time giving their money away.

It's the poor who seem to hate the rich whilst demanding they pay more. And blame them for having the gumption and good luck to make it in life.

Gumption and good luck? Does that make it ok for one person to be wiping their arse with 500 quid notes while someone else is homeless and children live in poverty?
Get a fucking grip. It's very rarely gumption and good luck that makes people rich anyway, its usually not being born into poverty in the first place.

Maybe. But if I was earning shedloads of money - ie 20 times the average salary in the UK - I think I could cope with it.

Classless does not exist, every regime/system has classes some more obvious then others, but they all do.
Rich in this country are paying and paying plentiful, Should they be paying more? Perhaps, but at least they are measures in place to ensure that socially impoverished are taken care of, same can't be said for many other countries.
IMO we don't have it that bad, we have democracy, freedom of speech, free health and education, it isn't perfect and needs work, but certainly is not bad enough to be contemplating Communism.

I agree strictly. I think it's not too bad here. But the OP was suggesting that those who thought the situation could be improved and who were worried about changes to the current system, were actually advocating communism - which was a bit of a overreaction.

Actually knowing- as in RL, before I knew her on MN- I doubt Orm would be type to feel bad about tax tbh.

niceguy i agree with 'It's the poor who seem to hate the rich whilst demanding they pay more. And blame them for having the gumption and good luck to make it in life'

mind you, someone on £22K can be a net tax contributor (pay in more than they take out in services) so people on average salaries do pay their own way as well.

the top fund the bottom & the middle fund themselves which makes your statement above even more interesting

I don't blood hate the rich (poster formerly known as Peachy) thank you very much, I hate nobody unless they get in the way of my boy's security and needs frankly

Loads of people were born into poor households. I watched the Grammar school documentary and some of them did very well even though their parents had very little money but just wanted their children to get on in life. Wasn't Alan Sugar from a poor background as was Duncan Ballantyne etc.

I think 'the world owes me mentality' is too prevalent in today's society.

I as born into a poor household, I have a degree and post grad, my sisters have good jobs but I ended up as a carer.

I don't think 'anyone owes me anything', although as DH and I paid (still do) NI for years I do NI owes me the insurance now.

How come no former communist country has voted to go back to communism if it's so bloody marvellous? Surely, with their experience of 'bad' communism they'd have plenty of ideas about how to implement 'good' communism without all of the bad bits (mass starvation, shortages, tyranny, economic stagnation, pollution, secret police forces, curfews etc). Remember, communism is a system of government which managed to take the traditionally richest part of Germany (Brandenburg and Prussia), impoverish it and make it crap.

And who the wall was for? It was to prevent the communist East Germans from emigrating to capitalist West Germany. When the wall came down, which way was the flow of people? It's a similar story with Cuba. There's a sizeable ex-pat Cuban population in Miami, but no American ex-pat community in Havana. People vote with their feet and they usually vote 'Communism Sucks'.

If you look at your history books, Stalin had pretty much killed anyone who objected to communist rule, wiped out the landed and middle classes, industrialised the country and won the Second World War by the time of his death in 1953. There should have been no ideological barriers left to overcome - communism should have worked. The fact that it couldn't even work under those circumstances tells me that it never could.

even poor old Trotsky got murdered when he escaped to America. No I am being too sentimental.

Isn't North Korea communist or something like that and everyone wants to escape to South Korea or is it the other way round.

Also no religious freedom because you have to be loyal to the party and state.

sounds like real fun.

I think people should take notice of the posters who have actually lived in places under a communist government.

I don't think Mumsnet would be allowed either

i went to russia in the 1990s. people living in 20 store tower blocks with half their own block fallen down. v skinney people begging for food. shops with nothing in. you had to eat the same food all the time.

no democacy, so the rulers were not accountable. churhill said "democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried"

Many years ago I quite liked the idea of communism in theory - all seemed jolly decent and fair - until I read Wild Swans. Then I changed my mind.

also what happened to people who couldn't work like the old and disabled in communist countries. Were they supported? or did you have to be productive?

None of these places have been or are communist. Not one.

You can't vote to "go back to communism" when you have never been communist. Russia was State Capitalist almost from the start. Mao was essentially a dictator.

I'm not so sure about the elderly, but I remember the lovely orphanages they had in Romania.(Ok I remember seeing them on TV).

Yes but do you not think they were trying to be communist and look how bad they were. don't you think if it has been tried out and hasn't worked, it is best to learn from it.

How would you describe China and Russian governments. were they not trying to implement Marxism and why did it not work?

If you do history these countries are referred to as communist. I did O and A level history and we studied the Russian revolution and that was how Russia was described.

You are probably right Android but that is the impression I was given if that makes sense.

TheParanoidAndroid "None of these places have been or are communist. Not one."

Do you mean they weren't communist in the same way as Britain, with government spending running at 50% of GDP, a massive welfare state and its nationalised industries isn't properly capitalist?

no, if I had meant that I would have said that.

Russia may be called communist, but it was for the most part State Capitalist, which is entirely different. The people who kicked off the revolution may have wanted to create a communist society, but they knew very quickly that it was never going to happen. Some of them kept trying but a lot of them just looked out fro themselves and took advantage. That doesn't mean that that is an inevitable outcome of an attempt (though it is most likely if attempted with the overall framework of a mainly capitalist world)