to think most people would like us to live in a communist country?

[wannaBe]

"landlords shouldn't be allowed to rent for more than x amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to sell their houses for more than a certain amount of money."

"People shouldn't be allowed to earn more than a certain amount of money (I'm talking salary here not benefits)."

This isn't a thread about who is better off and who can afford to do what - that's been done to death elsewhere.

But do people really think we would be in a better place if we didn't live in a free economy and where we were dictated to by the state how much we could and couldn't earn/whether we could or couldn't sell our house etc? really?

Yes, we would be better off

Bring on the Gulags

Yes, we would. Obviously. Look at Sweden etc. They are better than us, objectively, on all measures, and are socialist countries (not communist, but I suppose you can't see the distinction unless you are educated to a higher level than most right-wingers). Capitalism has failed, despite being given the longest chance of any political experiment in history. People are dying and suffering in the world right now mainly because of capitalism, it's obviously time for something more humane and well-managed.

Communism definitely has lots going for it, but has some serious issues too. How about socialism?

YABU, in that I very much doubt most people think that, and I strongly suspect that even the ones who do would change their tune if they were suddenly faced with having to..

def no!

wammabe, no we would be a worse plce if the guardianistas get their way. Feckin control freaks they be.

Russia is far worse off now that communism has gone Life expectancy has worsened, alchoholism is up, prices are up, living conditions are worse, birth rate is down. It's a dying country. There are some rich people, but the average Russian is worse off and more insecure now than under the previous system.

"I strongly suspect that even the ones who do would change their tune if they were suddenly faced
with having to.." absolutely.

according to the some americans we are communist as it is.. I mean we have a national health service!! and look at the outrage at the muppets being commies (and they are a british creation) I'm afraid we are already doomed.

itsallgoingtobefine we can't be socialist... the daily mail readers masses wouldnt understand that its different to national socialism

Why not just try a bit of social justice?

You are talking about extremes. Go and read some philosophy, John Stuart Mill for example, about the greatest good for the greatest number, rather than a few oligarchs with billions.

If you have no regulation of anything, the shits run riot. Perhaps you would like guns being sold on every street corner, that's a free market isn't it?

Perhaps you can tell me where you live and I can come round and shoot you with my free market Kalsnikov?

Fed up with right wing shits on these boards emotion

Communism has failed. Capitalism has failed. We are now in the messy process of determining what actually works.

It is clear that both rampant earnings inequality is wrong, but so is asking the bulk of relatively low earning taxpayers to subsidise a growing benefit cost.

well the current model has broken so bring on the next.....a change is as good as a holiday...

There's more to it than capitalism being bad equalling a desire for communism.
Russia's in a period of stabilisation (of a sort) as all those economies are, they're in a category of their own rather than being capitalist.

The former Eastern Bloc was run by their various Mafias, don't forget: inequality, unfairness, privileged access to services and goods was nothing new when the wall came down.

Socialist, of course. Unless you're happy about the children growing up in poverty in your very affluent country?

We are dictated to by the State in many many ways. Why not let the State dicate the behaviour of the market too. Rather than as is the case now, letting the market dictate to everyone, whether they have the wherewithal to have a stake in it or not?

Devils advocate here - I don't advocate communism. But I think capitalism is a bit shit too.

A properly administered Socialism would probably be the best. Not the crap we had under New Labour either

No, they don't want communism, they want socialism, as long as it's champagne they're drinking. c.f., "most of mumsnet".

BTW it depends on which communist country. Cuba always sounds quite nice.

I would like socialism please

I do laugh over the left wing aspects of mumsnet, coupled with the vast amount of threads about independent schools.

Sweden is a capitalist country. Whilst it has a good welfare state it is a capitalist country along with Norway, and Denmark. Some huge pharmaceutical companies are based in thse countries, IKEA is hardly socialist, and Maersk could never be accused of being a socialist company (there are evn special tax laws for shipping comapnies because of maersk). Yes in some areas rents are controlled, but not in all areas. And whilst some places have protection on them so they cannot be brought and sold for profit these are a minority (and sadly at the boom many people got round these rules, by only selling their flats to people who also happened to want to buy their wardrobe for several thousand! which backfired on the buyers after the boom).
And I know in denmark they are having the same issue with the welfare state at the Uk is, with most people demanding state benefits come down, as it turned out that in order to make it worthwhile to work the long term unemployed had to earn something like £3,500 per month (much more than the average wage there). For the average person who is not long term unemployed they have to actually pay into a private insurance scheme to get decent unemployment pay, and maternity pay from the state is less than the state unemployment rate.

The Unions shouldn't have screwed everything up prior to Thatcher. Everything we'd have since, has just been a continued version of Thatcherism - Even New Labour, although they'd never admit it. They were just as taken in by her as everyone else. She had some kind of svengali effect on politicians. We're all paying the price now

Human being not sufficiently evolved enough to follow idealistic communist existence.

However socialist in style of Sweden etc- bring it on!

Capitalism has failed; new Government policies will see some people being subjected to Absolute Poverty*. other models (eg communism) screwing it up does not make this wrong!

- Absolute Poverty: yes I do mean that. It will be relatively easy under new system for people to fall completely through safety net and end up with either no income at all or the 'state minimum'- which is £2K per annum. An example would be someone wrongly assessed as being able to work and placed on workfare but who cannot manage workfare and therefore gets benefit suspension- all* benefits, HB the lot. ATOS incorrect assessments for ESA running somewhere around 40% and bill to remove legal aid for all benefit appeals due this week so for a great many 'middle' level disabled people, and their carers who will have a choice of leace the person theyc are for unattended or be cut off competely- Absolute Poverty, br proper definition, is an increasing possibility. Is that ever an OK prospect for our vulnerable people?